Manitou control stick problems.

[EW agricultural]

I'm having problems with an 07 manitou 735. We were using it in the morning parked it and came back about 20min later to use again and it wouldn't start. I tested all fuses and they were fine so I moved to the safety starter switch relay. I replaced it with a spare one I have lying about and it didn't help so I bypassed it. The engine started so there must be something telling the relay to stay open. So the engine is running but the machine won't go into forward or reverse or change gears on the powershift and display telling me what gear I'm in is blank. Also the proportional controls for the extender and 3rd service only work in one direction (out) whichever way you move the switch. All of these controls are on the control stick so is that what's causing the bother or is it something deeper? The main lift and curl controls are still working fine and by disconnecting the one of the 3 plugs to the control stick I can pull the extender back in and unlatch the bucket. But still can't move the thing. I've checked all the wires from the stick to the connectors and they've all got continuity through them. Is there any way I can test the stick or the rest of the system seperately from each other and does anyone have any ideas? Thanks

 

[Manny]

@ACEngineering is your man for this.

 

[ACEngineering]

I'm having problems with an 07 manitou 735. We were using it in the morning parked it and came back about 20min later to use again and it wouldn't start. I tested all fuses and they were fine so I moved to the safety starter switch relay. I replaced it with a spare one I have lying about and it didn't help so I bypassed it. The engine started so there must be something telling the relay to stay open. So the engine is running but the machine won't go into forward or reverse or change gears on the powershift and display telling me what gear I'm in is blank. Also the proportional controls for the extender and 3rd service only work in one direction (out) whichever way you move the switch. All of these controls are on the control stick so is that what's causing the bother or is it something deeper? The main lift and curl controls are still working fine and by disconnecting the one of the 3 plugs to the control stick I can pull the extender back in and unlatch the bucket. But still can't move the thing. I've checked all the wires from the stick to the connectors and they've all got continuity through them. Is there any way I can test the stick or the rest of the system seperately from each other and does anyone have any ideas? Thanks

if the gear display is blank you have lost power to the transmission ECU, check the fuses should be F8 i think BUT the most common thin is a burnt plg on the fuse board top right hand corner.

Plug H on the board and its the top pin in that plug, they melt the plastic over the pin on the board, you can buy the new plugs and male and female pins for them from manitou BUT the male pins are soldered in to the fuse board so you have to remove the barod to fit male ones, they normally just clean up on the board and replace the female ones on the loom.

 

[EW agricultural]

if the gear display is blank you have lost power to the transmission ECU, check the fuses should be F8 i think BUT the most common thin is a burnt plg on the fuse board top right hand corner.

Plug H on the board and its the top pin in that plug, they melt the plastic over the pin on the board, you can buy the new plugs and male and female pins for them from manitou BUT the male pins are soldered in to the fuse board so you have to remove the barod to fit male ones, they normally just clean up on the board and replace the female ones on the loom.

Brilliant, thanks for the reply. You seem to be bang on the money. I double checked the fuse and that's alright but the plug has been burnt out badly. Could this be causing the problems with engine start and proportional controls too? Can I do anything to prevent it happening again in the future?

 

[tepapa]

Brilliant, thanks for the reply. You seem to be bang on the money. I double checked the fuse and that's alright but the plug has been burnt out badly. Could this be causing the problems with engine start and proportional controls too? Can I do anything to prevent it happening again in the future?

They don't call him ACE for no reason. He's like the A team for manitou's.

 

[ACEngineering]

They don't call him ACE for no reason. He's like the A team for manitou's.

AC is actually just my initials of first and surname, it was possibly what I might have changed my business name to years ago as I couldnt think of anything better but i never bothered and kept with the old business name which really has no special or significant meaning anymore since my original business partner moved on after little more than 6months of us starting up way back in March 2003.

It's way too late to change business names now so I just stuck with the old one that people know, although it does cause some confusion when people start googling ACEngineering for manitou stuff only to draw abit of a blank

 

[ACEngineering]

Brilliant, thanks for the reply. You seem to be bang on the money. I double checked the fuse and that's alright but the plug has been burnt out badly. Could this be causing the problems with engine start and proportional controls too? Can I do anything to prevent it happening again in the future?

That pin in plug H is just something the powershift machines have a habit of burning out, never seen a manual 4 speed one do it yet.

Once burnt it tends to melt some plastic over the pin on the board so you have to get in the and all around it with a little bit of Emery paper or sandpaper. I clamp a bit in a pair of angle nose pliers and rub over it a few times.
But the pin in the plug and probably the plug itself will be scrap, you can remove the good pins easy with a tiny screwdriver by pressing in the little tabs on pins to release them. Then just need 1 new pin and a plug.

Are you mainland UK?

 

[ACEngineering]

Brilliant, thanks for the reply. You seem to be bang on the money. I double checked the fuse and that's alright but the plug has been burnt out badly. Could this be causing the problems with engine start and proportional controls too? Can I do anything to prevent it happening again in the future?

It will have been preventing you starting the engine on the key yes, because the transmission ECU needs to activate the neutral saftey start relay which it cant do if theres no power to it.

It wont affect the hydraulic controls though, that's a different problem.

So joystick is I think fuse F32? Very top of fuse box on a separate single fuse holder next to a separate relay. That wont be blown though and here is why.

Fuse supplies both aux and extension solenoids on the spool block with 12v power.

Solenoids then have an earth and a 5volt wire out ofveach which goes to the scroll switches on joystick.
(I think the aux cut off switch cuts the 5volts to the aux roller so you can isolate it??? Unless it cuts the 12v supply to aux solenoid I cant remember which way round it is)

The joystick then sends a signal voltage back to the solenoids, 0.5volts operates service one way and 4.5volts operates it the other way and somewhere inbetween is neutral.

The solenoid then uses that signal voltage to open a valve to allow hyd pilot pressure to act on either end of the spool rod to move it one way or the other, there is also a plastic plunger rod on to the end of the spool rod to tell the solenoid where the spool actually is positioned.

The Solenoid valves are rather unreliable and very expensive but at least there are only 2 of them at near £900 plus vat each from manitou I sell them abit cheaper though

Joysticks rarely go wrong, normally its wires broken at the base of stick or in some rare cases the PCB board under the scroll switch burns out, done 3 or 4 in the past 19 years, lost count of solenoids loads of them

The problem your describing is common to failed solenoids and can be totally random and intermittent. They can fail in every way possible, from not working at all to only working one way, can work but uncontrollably juddering, or sometimes they can just work all on there own which is really the worse type of failure as can damage shed roofs and or anything in its way

 

[EW agricultural]

Yeah, we're based in South Wales. Sounds like I ought to be glad the problem is as tame as it is! Have you got any of the female connectors? I'll order that now to get it driving and fiddle with the solenoid valves in the meantime.
Cheers

 

[EW agricultural]

It will have been preventing you starting the engine on the key yes, because the transmission ECU needs to activate the neutral saftey start relay which it cant do if theres no power to it.

It wont affect the hydraulic controls though, that's a different problem.

So joystick is I think fuse F32? Very top of fuse box on a separate single fuse holder next to a separate relay. That wont be blown though and here is why.

Fuse supplies both aux and extension solenoids on the spool block with 12v power.

Solenoids then have an earth and a 5volt wire out ofveach which goes to the scroll switches on joystick.
(I think the aux cut off switch cuts the 5volts to the aux roller so you can isolate it??? Unless it cuts the 12v supply to aux solenoid I cant remember which way round it is)

The joystick then sends a signal voltage back to the solenoids, 0.5volts operates service one way and 4.5volts operates it the other way and somewhere inbetween is neutral.

The solenoid then uses that signal voltage to open a valve to allow hyd pilot pressure to act on either end of the spool rod to move it one way or the other, there is also a plastic plunger rod on to the end of the spool rod to tell the solenoid where the spool actually is positioned.

The Solenoid valves are rather unreliable and very expensive but at least there are only 2 of them at near £900 plus vat each from manitou I sell them abit cheaper though

Joysticks rarely go wrong, normally its wires broken at the base of stick or in some rare cases the PCB board under the scroll switch burns out, done 3 or 4 in the past 19 years, lost count of solenoids loads of them

The problem your describing is common to failed solenoids and can be totally random and intermittent. They can fail in every way possible, from not working at all to only working one way, can work but uncontrollably juddering, or sometimes they can just work all on there own which is really the worse type of failure as can damage shed roofs and or anything in its way

Isn't it odd that they'd fail simultaneously though?

 

[ACEngineering]

Yeah, we're based in South Wales. Sounds like I ought to be glad the problem is as tame as it is! Have you got any of the female connectors? I'll order that now to get it driving and fiddle with the solenoid valves in the meantime.
Cheers

Yes i have both the white plug and the pins in stock normally. Just PM me your invoice details and contact no.

 

[ACEngineering]

Isn't it odd that they'd fail simultaneously though?

Not really. them solenoid valves are very common to fail. Have a local customer with 3 machines and sold him 5 solenoids within 3 months a few years ago