Map for Direct Drilling

[Warnesworth]

Funny you say this, there is a thread running on a drilling Facebook group of someone who has sold his 3 year old Mzuri, straw rake and special ld subsoilet and going back to top down and vaderstadt. Saying the land is now compacted and subsoiling doesn’t work, wet areas appearing.
Obviously loads of comments ‘direct drilling doesn’t work’.

I’m currently looking to get a LD subsoiler but things like this worry me…they have to lift the whole profile. We were (literally) crawling along with a challenger and 5 legs this year but were lifting the whole profile visually 12” deep. When I look at these LD things I do wonder how much they will achieve in comparison. We had destroyed the field in question with beet lifting the year before (don’t ask) so I’m just hoping they were extreme conditions and an LD would be sufficient in a normal year

I did some this year on some headlands and I don’t think it achieves a lot for us. I think where we do have issue on some fields the damage is fairly near the surface, I am thinking about a second hand Claydon to use on targeted fields with issues and to drill beans/give us a wetter weather drill. I don’t think low disturbance subsoiling is the answer to any shallow compaction issues we see sometimes.

Do you need to use an LD subsoiler?
The past 2 seasons have been very wet Autumns and Winters, followed by very dry Springs and (early) Summers. Which have created massive cracks in the soil which probably have done far more good than any Subsoiler.
EXCEPT when you have damage caused by harvesting Beet in those wet Autumns, which is inevitable.

The trouble being that if you grow Beet and this happens, trying to go DD and Regenerative, it is going to be a real struggle, if not impossible, until unfortunately, you stop growing such crops as Beet!


Is a Mzuri a Direct drill?
Yes insofar that it is a one pass drill without the need for prior cultivation.
No insofar that it doesn’t need prior cultivation, but moves and stirs up far too much soil, causing OM damage and loss of Carbon.
Perhaps therein lays the problem and why it doesn’t work causing wet areas to appear?

If you are going to subsoil, then subsoil and move the soil to alleviate the problem, but the subsoil must be dry otherwise you are achieving nothing other than making the situation worse.
LD subsoilers are an oxymoron, pointless. The other fallacy is because they are low draft you can use them in wet soil. NO. NO. NO. They are compacters in wet soil, not subsoilers.

I passed someone out with their Sward Lifter in Bledington last week. So I stopped to have a look. It had very neatly compacted the soil above and below the point and created nice mole drains. Not so much lifted as compacted. And I believe this is what people are doing with the strip till drills, drilling later, because of a mistaken belief it will help control blackgrass, into wetter soil and actually creating compaction with the leading leg. No matter what design it is, the leg if run too deep in wet soil, will not lift but compact.

 

[ajd132]

If you are going to subsoil, then subsoil and move the soil to alleviate the problem, but the subsoil must be dry otherwise you are achieving nothing other than making the situation worse.
LD subsoilers are an oxymoron, pointless. The other fallacy is because they are low draft you can use them in wet soil. NO. NO. NO. They are compacters in wet soil, not subsoilers.

I passed someone out with their Sward Lifter in Bledington last week. So I stopped to have a look. It had very neatly compacted the soil above and below the point and created nice mole drains. Not so much lifted as compacted. And I believe this is what people are doing with the strip till drills, drilling later, because of a mistaken belief it will help control blackgrass, into wetter soil and actually creating compaction with the leading leg. No matter what design it is, the leg if run too deep in wet soil, will not lift but compact.

Couldn’t agree more. The only compaction I have this year is where I subsoiled thinking I was sorting out last years compaction on some headlands and corners

 

[BuskhillFarm]

Looking at the claydon they look to be heading towards a ld leg and seeder in one. Is it a half way house from min till to true dd?

 

[BuskhillFarm]

Very true what you say re veg production needing to catch up, whenever I speak at events or to farmer groups thee are 2 question I can guarantee will be asked. #1 is the obvious "how will you do it without glyphosate when its banned". #2 is I"t can't work for roots and people got to eat roots and veg"

I think its is possible for Veg and roots and there are some pioneering examples already, what needs to happen is massive innovation in those sectors to develop the machines and techniques / agronomy to make it possible ...... as has happened in cereals, this will not be or happen overnight but if we can put men on the m moon Im quite sure its not beyond out wit to work out how to grow a potato without am plough !

I’ve been told that people have used the claydon to successfully drill sugar beet, fodder beet and also maize. Very good start, bit harder to shove a potato through the accord metering unit I guess though. But I’m sure someone will be trialing something already maybe mole drainer type leg one a planter?

 

[alomy75]

I’ve been told that people have used the claydon to successfully drill sugar beet, fodder beet and also maize. Very good start, bit harder to shove a potato through the accord metering unit I guess though. But I’m sure someone will be trialing something already maybe mole drainer type leg one a planter?

Fodder beet maybe but you can’t precision drill sugar beet through a standard Claydon

 

[alomy75]

You can strip till beet quite well but usually means establishing the strips in autumn and drilling with a mulch-equipped beet drill in the spring

 

[BuskhillFarm]

You can strip till beet quite well but usually means establishing the strips in autumn and drilling with a mulch-equipped beet drill in the spring

The beet drilling I was told by a salesman so maybe need to see with own eyes and see what the actual system is

 

[alomy75]

The beet drilling I was told by a salesman so maybe need to see with own eyes and see what the actual system is

Yeah he prob got confused; you need an accurate consistent spacing with sugar beet seed; 1 pellet every 17.5cm in a 45 or 50cm row 2-3cm deep or you’d never be able to harvest it

 

[Simon Chiles]

Is there a map for where people do more direct drilling over ploughing?
Moving on from the ploughing is bad thread, where is the cross over point. Is it only for the big south of England farms? Where is is dry and sunny and warm?
I’m in Northern Ireland, it’s damp and mild all year around. I plough because it’s what I “think” I have to do. My farm is probably smaller than what some people call (an awkward corner so we’ll plant in trees so we don’t have to bother with it)
It’s bloody steep (I’ve been beaten with a 4 furrow on a t6080 NH) and also a 800l sprayer on my lightest tractor on in a poor year.

I do it for the love and will probably not change my system as it’s set up for the worst years and can only justify one seed drill which has to be suitable for the worst years.
How does direct drilling work on the steep ground on a wet year?
No one in my area does it including the farmers weekly farmer of the year (min till is starting to get a bit more popular) but 99% is all ploughed here.

Forget about a map of suitable soils or climate, it’s all in your mindset. If such a map existed I’d never have started. Although I’m in the ‘dry’ south east we’d get over 1000 mm of rain in a wet year and probably a 4 on your scale of classification as we’re on heavy silty clay soils. I’ve been direct drilling for 22 years now. I’ll let @Clive, @ajd132, @martian et al testify whether or not they think it’s worked in these conditions.

 

[Clive]

I’ve been told that people have used the claydon to successfully drill sugar beet, fodder beet and also maize. Very good start, bit harder to shove a potato through the accord metering unit I guess though. But I’m sure someone will be trialing something already maybe mole drainer type leg one a planter?

Sugar beet can be strip tilled pretty successfully with systems like the SLY drill etc

I've seen broccoli and a few other veg crops grown successfully and commercially no-till in a few other countries at vast scale

Potatoes have been done successfully but I'm not sure commercially yet - @martian has experience here

systems need to develop but I'm sure its all perfectly possible if ambition to make it works exist

 

[BuskhillFarm]

Sugar beet can be strip tilled pretty successfully with systems like the SLY drill etc

I've seen broccoli and a few other veg crops grown successfully and commercially no-till in a few other countries at vast scale

Potatoes have been done successfully but I'm not sure commercially yet - @martian has experience here

systems need to develop but I'm sure its all perfectly possible if ambition to make it works exist

I suppose most need money to pull them out “tradition”. Until recently I though min till was an excuse to get a quad trac and dd was witch craft, now with lots of research of my own, I’m waking up to the fact that maybe I’ve been doing it wrong, (maybe not wrong, but certainly not best practice).
Maybe without the luxury of bps and rising costs farmers will start to embrace alternative ways.

 

[Clive]

I suppose most need money to pull them out “tradition”. Until recently I though min till was an excuse to get a quad trac and dd was witch craft, now with lots of research of my own, I’m waking up to the fact that maybe I’ve been doing it wrong, (maybe not wrong, but certainly not best practice).
Maybe without the luxury of bps and rising costs farmers will start to embrace alternative ways.

Reason for change is the number 1 reason to change

Subs have destroyed ag innovation in the UK for too long now

 

[BuskhillFarm]

Reason for change is the number 1 reason to change

Subs have destroyed ag innovation in the UK for too long now

My granda said it was the worst thing to happen farming when they came out, how right was he.

 

[sjt01]

Sugar beet can be strip tilled pretty successfully with systems like the SLY drill etc

I've seen broccoli and a few other veg crops grown successfully and commercially no-till in a few other countries at vast scale

Potatoes have been done successfully but I'm not sure commercially yet - @martian has experience here

systems need to develop but I'm sure its all perfectly possible if ambition to make it works exist

The problem with beet is not with drilling it, but putting the next crop in after beet harvest when the machinery has destroyed the soil in a wet December. We tried strip tilling maize into beet ground - conclusion - give up beet.

 

[ajd132]

The problem with beet is not with drilling it, but putting the next crop in after beet harvest when the machinery has destroyed the soil in a wet December. We tried strip tilling maize into beet ground - conclusion - give up beet.

There is some good wheat drilled with a Claydon after early lift beet on clay around here.

 

[Sheep]

@BuskhillFarm

Probably not much use to you, but in the spring I'll be going direct into ground with a homemade tine drill here in Tyrone. First year going direct with cereals and not grass. If all goes well I'll be going direct with Rye next autumn also. You're more than welcome to have a look.

 

[BuskhillFarm]

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@BuskhillFarm

Probably not much use to you, but in the spring I'll be going direct into ground with a homemade tine drill here in Tyrone. First year going direct with cereals and not grass. If all goes well I'll be going direct with Rye next autumn also. You're more than welcome to have a look.

It would be very useful. I will take you up on that, my heart is far from set on any one system, so seeing as many as possible before the chequebook or welding rods come out will be very useful. Thanks

 

[alomy75]

There is some good wheat drilled with a Claydon after early lift beet on clay around here.

Mate of mine did some near Clare this year and it’s come up a treat; same chap?!

 

[ajd132]

Mate of mine did some near Clare this year and it’s come up a treat; same chap?!

Exactly the man

 

[alomy75]

Exactly the man

Small world. I’m friends with Matt who works for their neighbour (with the Claydon) but the field was where his dad/bro farm. Apparently it was a bit cheesy where the heap was but rest of it looks fab. Early lifted beet and it still did over 80t/ha!