capt.spiffing
Member
Dont you think it could actually reflect that its an increasingly wanted crop and the area needs to increase?
Maris Otter
- Thread starter Neddy flanders
- Start date
- Location
- Dorset/Wiltshire
While I don’t disagree with you I think a tiny proportion of the malt produced from Marris Otter is actually used for brewing.
What is it used for? Meant to be popular in the states now for all the craft breweries popping up
- Location
- Bodmin
Down here in Cornwall, St Austell use majority Maris Otter for all their ales. Very big brewery, surely they would have seen through a simple marketing act? They produce lots of award winning beers, just look yourself - https://www.staustellbrewery.co.uk/beer-awards How many awards has your friend won in the past 5 years?
- Location
- Dorset/Wiltshire
Ignore me you are right. It’s just one maltster who produces it for the food industry, obviously a tiny proportion of what’s produced
It might have a great future and well done to Robin Appel for resurrecting it for a growing market but at farm level to get me to grow it I need to see a consistent margin.
@Devon Dumpling grows it regularly. How do you rate it vs a feed barley?
@Devon Dumpling grows it regularly. How do you rate it vs a feed barley?
No doubt. Brewers saying they use heritage variety Maris otter must be part of the marketing. I don’t know anything about brewing. Just what one person told me but hey ho
Breakthru
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders
Lots of micro breweries use it and like Golden Promise in the distilling world it has some relatively unique properties apparently.
If that's all Horlicks hats off to the maltsters who are producing an added value product using smoke and mirrors. Respect!
If that's all Horlicks hats off to the maltsters who are producing an added value product using smoke and mirrors. Respect!
Robin Appel ha marketed Maris Otter and his traditional on floor malting at Warminster well.
The micro breweries starting up made this possible as they all want a unique selling story to make them stand out from the crowd.
We started growing it because one brewer wanted to put "brewed with Maris Otter malt grown in Lancashire" on the label. You all know the "locally grown" sell to get customers.
The fact that our barley had to travel to Yorkshire to be malted and then travel back to be brewed was not mentioned. It therefore had more food miles than if they had used Otter grown in Yorkshire.
We are in Merseyside now, but "traditionally" Lancashire as we are North of the Mersey so that was OK.
With all marketing you need is a good story and to be very selective with the truth if it ruins the story.
Some questions should not be asked, like what is Otter's unique quality, or why is floor malt different.
Just think VW and emissions.
The micro breweries starting up made this possible as they all want a unique selling story to make them stand out from the crowd.
We started growing it because one brewer wanted to put "brewed with Maris Otter malt grown in Lancashire" on the label. You all know the "locally grown" sell to get customers.
The fact that our barley had to travel to Yorkshire to be malted and then travel back to be brewed was not mentioned. It therefore had more food miles than if they had used Otter grown in Yorkshire.
We are in Merseyside now, but "traditionally" Lancashire as we are North of the Mersey so that was OK.
With all marketing you need is a good story and to be very selective with the truth if it ruins the story.
Some questions should not be asked, like what is Otter's unique quality, or why is floor malt different.
Just think VW and emissions.
Fair play to them for creating a story and hype around what has essentially become a brand. You can’t compare it to VW emissions. It is a great marketing success story.
Much of the success and rise of St Austell was due to their inspirational brewer Roger Ryman. Now sadly departed, Roger was committed to Otter for much of his beer. St Austell are much bigger than a niche brewer so the value of Otter to their beer is difficult to question.
I agree Robin Appel and the other user's have created a great brand with Otter, definetly smoke and mirrors in my opinion
I am not sure it has any unique properties as malt which is why it is very good marketing.
The VW comparison was about truth in marketing not Robin Appel.
Did they lie or not tell the whole truth?
- Location
- Bodmin
VW fraudulently created a program that reduced the emissions released during a rolling road test... Maris Otter is a barley variety that is over 50 years old, I doubt Robin Appel is there rigging the results of each brewers mash and adding flavour to the beers after hours! If Maris Otter didn't perform for a brewery, they would have discovered that a long time ago and it would have disappeared like all the other varieties have. Golden Promise is clearly another success story for barley varieties. Truth is in the pudding, they have both stood the test of time.
All these breweries trial different varieties to see how it effects their brewing performance and beer flavours, its a switched on industry... Why are we trying to knock these markets?
Surely UK agriculture needs success stories like Golden Promise and Maris Otter, so why not try and be apart of it? Lets stay positive guys, its tough times out there!!!
Breakthru
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders
What are your grain N levels like this year not just in Otter. Up here dry hot May followed by rain in June and cool weather seems to have resulted in mainly high N levels. However it may require some independent analysis as due to lockdown and recession malt requirement will be down so can expect more rejections.
1.60-1.65 on craft
Finest Pale Ale Maris Otter - Simpsons Malt
www.simpsonsmalt.co.uk
Best Pale Ale Malt - Simpsons Malt
www.simpsonsmalt.co.uk
VW fraudulently created a program that reduced the emissions released during a rolling road test... Maris Otter is a barley variety that is over 50 years old, I doubt Robin Appel is there rigging the results of each brewers mash and adding flavour to the beers after hours! If Maris Otter didn't perform for a brewery, they would have discovered that a long time ago and it would have disappeared like all the other varieties have. Golden Promise is clearly another success story for barley varieties. Truth is in the pudding, they have both stood the test of time.
All these breweries trial different varieties to see how it effects their brewing performance and beer flavours, its a switched on industry... Why are we trying to knock these markets?
Surely UK agriculture needs success stories like Golden Promise and Maris Otter, so why not try and be apart of it? Lets stay positive guys, its tough times out there!!!
I have been full of praise for the Maris Otter story and Robin Appel's role in keeping the variety alive.
The marketing is exceptional and everyone uses words like traditional and Rolls Royce but the question was asked why is Maris Otter different.
Finest Pale Ale Maris Otter - Simpsons Malt
www.simpsonsmalt.co.uk
Best Pale Ale Malt - Simpsons Malt
www.simpsonsmalt.co.uk
Read the marketing words on these two from Simpsons malt then study the numbers on the side.
Great marketing for Maris Otter. They look identical to me, they just use the right words to add value. Very clever and something we do need more of.
It is a job for professionals though most farmers do not understand how important the words are.
- Location
- Bodmin
I understand your point, but the reason the numbers are the same is because its the same malt grade... Each batch of malt you buy comes with its individual spec sheet, which naturally varies slightly from batch to batch.Finest Pale Ale Maris Otter - Simpsons Malt
Best Pale Ale Malt - Simpsons Malt
I have been full of praise for the Maris Otter story and Robin Appel's role in keeping the variety alive.
The marketing is exceptional and everyone uses words like traditional and Rolls Royce but the question was asked why is Maris Otter different.
Finest Pale Ale Maris Otter - Simpsons Malt
Best Pale Ale Malt - Simpsons Malt
Read the marketing words on these two from Simpsons malt then study the numbers on the side.
Great marketing for Maris Otter. They look identical to me, they just use the right words to add value. Very clever and something we do need more of.
It is a job for professionals though most farmers do not understand how important the words are.
Most breweries order on a spec and Simpson are advertising here they can cater for them within that range. The same grade is offered for Golden Promise as well and I wouldn't be surprised if the "Best Pale Ale Malt" is a blend of varieties, which may or may not include Golden Promise & Maris Otter!
Breakthru
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders
Golden Promise most certainly has unique properties that is why Macallan pay a premium for it. I can only assume Otter has certain unique properties for brewing and that it isn't all smoke mirrors and clever marketing.
After Brexit we are all going to have to learn that the old stack it high cheaply its subsidised days are over and that you have to box smart and sell a premium product that gives you a premium.
I am going to be interested to see who survives. The first to go are those over committed in debt terms. After that lets just see how efficient the big is beautiful guys are along with those who think low input farming is the answer.
No subs is a very big wake up call and in my mind long overdue.
It's not a jealousy thing as I abhor how we have exported our manufacturing to slave labour economies.
My answer would be to give the farm every family employed on the farm £20k. That's it, basic sub, which is to my mind very generous. The country would save a fortune and the efficient would prosper.
The inefficient if stupid would go bust the rest will mosey along enjoying their £20k.
After Brexit we are all going to have to learn that the old stack it high cheaply its subsidised days are over and that you have to box smart and sell a premium product that gives you a premium.
I am going to be interested to see who survives. The first to go are those over committed in debt terms. After that lets just see how efficient the big is beautiful guys are along with those who think low input farming is the answer.
No subs is a very big wake up call and in my mind long overdue.
It's not a jealousy thing as I abhor how we have exported our manufacturing to slave labour economies.
My answer would be to give the farm every family employed on the farm £20k. That's it, basic sub, which is to my mind very generous. The country would save a fortune and the efficient would prosper.
The inefficient if stupid would go bust the rest will mosey along enjoying their £20k.
shakerator
Member
- Location
- LINCS
sorry I meant until prices break out of their current range(ie move much higher) then cost management and risk aversion will be the name of the game. If £250/t were imminent then investment in crops will be less financially controlled