massey ferguson 35 4cyl starting problems

[tbv]

Hi all,
new on the forum so firstly, hello from leeds and thanks for having me.
so last week i bought a massey ferguson 35, 1958 4 cylinder, in really nice condition,
when it arrived on the trailer from the guy who picked it up for me it started fine, a hour latter when i was going to go for a ride on it it started up straight away, let it tick over for 5 mins
and when to set off and it cut out, now im no mechanic but iv tinkered with land rovers before, i checked for air in the system and cracked the injectors and pretty much everthink i could think off, fuel came out of them all,
took the sediment bowl off and cleaned it out, fuel filter was brand new last week, sediment bowl wouldnt refill so cracked a pipe off and put the air line on it and it filled, still wouldnt start, went back to it the next day, opened the 2 valves on the injectors, pumped the lift pump a few times and turned it over for a second and fuel came spurting out, tried to start it and it fired up straigh away, let it take over for 10 mins and turned it off, an hour later decided to go out on it again, started first time, but when i tried to set off it cut out again and wouldnt re start, so took fuel tank off and drained it, there was enough crap and rust came out of it to fill a sediment bown full, cleaned it out added fresh fuel, took lift pump off, all looked ok, but i probably wouldnt know if it was or wasnt, tried to start it today and again nothing, cracked the 2 valves again dottom one spurted but not the top one, not with help from the lift pump or filcking it over, so im wondering if it may be the lift pump, would that make it not start?? any suggestions or advice would be much appreciated,
sorry my tale is so long,
thanks.

lee

 

[Wisconsonian]

You have a lift pump on the side of the engine block with a hand priming lever on it right? That hand priming lever can be used to diagnose if the pump is pumping, or sucking against a vacuum, or pumped up so holding pressure and not pumping. The heavy spring pressure you feel is the resistance of the diaphragm return spring that you're compressing with the lever, then you release the lever and that spring pumps the fuel out under pressure, unless it's already under enough pressure and it doesn't flow, then the spring won't return the diaphragm and you won't feel pressure on the lever. Sometimes there will be a light spring to keep the lever down, but you won't feel the same heavy resistance on the lever. If the inlet is plugged, it will try to pull a vacuum, and be even harder to pump the lever. You can remove the inlet and plug it with your finger to see how this works.

Even if that makes no sense, you probably have blockage in the fuel lines somewhere, most likely between the tank and the pump. Take the lines apart, put a wire through and then blow out with air.

 

[H200GT]

Try the small filter in the cav injection pump. Its under the large nut where the fuel enters the pump, see attached. Can be done with pump in situ, remove the fuel feed pipe then the big nut. Just ensure everything clean and be take note in how it comes apart so it goes back together in the same order. Fiddly first time but once you have done it once it’s quite easy to do.

 

[tbv]

thanks chaps, i will give these a go tomorrow, ordered a new lift pump to be on the safe side, it seemed like there was no pumping or preasure on it anyway, i will keep you informed,
thanks.

lee

 

[MrNoo]

If it's anything like the Fergie engine, the lift pump cam drive can stop on the lobe when you turn the engine off and then no amount of pushing/pulling on the lift pump lever will get you any fuel through, but sounds like you've tried spinning it over so shouldnt be that

 

[tomlad]

If it's anything like the Fergie engine, the lift pump cam drive can stop on the lobe when you turn the engine off and then no amount of pushing/pulling on the lift pump lever will get you any fuel through, but sounds like you've tried spinning it over so shouldnt be that

Very true , i think for all engines but ur right if cams on high bit , pump won't feel anything

 

[startinghandle]

I remember a few times over the years where tractors stop and won't start again using starter but starts immediately when tow started

 

[multi power]

I'd suggest you change the filter
There is probably an air leak somewhere as well

 

[shumungus]

Hold on, start simple screw off the feed pipe from the tank to the lift pump at the lift pump end, does fuel come out quickly if not filter in tank is blocked.

 

[manhill]

Hold on, start simple screw off the feed pipe from the tank to the lift pump at the lift pump end, does fuel come out quickly if not filter in tank is blocked.

Exactly,call it a 3 pressure system...(1)lift pressure (out of the lift pump. (2) transfer pressure (which increases pressure from lift pump pressure,and is only produced by the engine rotating the internal transfer pump and (3) Injection pressure which is very high and only produced by a rotating engine.

 

[tbv]

Right chaps,
I think I may well of sorted it, new lift pump fitted yesterday, started ok but then it shut down again after 10 mins,
Was taking all the fuel pipes off to check and realised the pipe that goes from the fuel tap/sediment bowl to the lift pump, the bulbous end that’s on the end that goes into the lift pump had come off some how, so ordered a new one, but as a make shift bashed it back on the pipe and it fired up and ran on tick over for a good half hour, didn’t want to go out on it just in case it broke down, but will venture out on it tomorrow if it starts and ticks over for 10 mins, 2 things I did notice though when it was running, it was spurting out some black stuff and located it to be coming out of a hole under the exhaust where it attaches to the engine, hope the picture show what I mean and also the rear hitch doesn’t stay up when I turned the engine off, have a 4 foot link box on so quite heavy, took 2-3 mins for it to go all the way down, I’m guessing that’s not right????
many thanks.

 

[agrimax]

The linkage dropping with the engine stopped is quite normal.It's just the way they are. The hole on the exhaust elbow is just a drain to let water away if the tractor is left outside in the rain. The leakage could be a little oil from glazed bores or worn valve guides but may just be because of lack of use.Give it a bit of work or hard driving and it'll maybe dry up.

 

[tbv]

thanks mate, glad theres nothing wrong with my linkage, and ill certainly put it through its paces this weekend
thanks.

lee

 

[tomlad]

That drain hole in exhaust elbow is important imo
Will block with soot , as said allows any rain water to drain and not go into engine. Keep it clear. 4mm ish i tink .
If it holds a heavy thing up 5 minutes be ok . Id like a bit longer but i think some were like that new .
Is it bobing wen running?
I think as long as u cant see it drop on shut down be right . Also i bet ur oil is cold so be worse wen oil thins .
I think the lift piston on those is metal piston rings ,not a rubber seal, so never going to be a perfect seal is it , long as not bobbing to much i wouldn't worry.