Massey Ferguson 590 starting problem

[Farmerpickle]

My 590 has just had it's head reconditioned, new piston rings and shells. It has been put back together and won't start.
The engine seems to be tight. The starter just hasn't got enough grunt to swing the engine over fast enough.
I thought, lazy starter. So, I've taken a starter and battery from another tractor of mine and put on and it's still exactly the same. It seems like an earthing problem.

I've taken out the injectors and turned the engine over and everything does as it should. It just seems to be when the engine under pressure. I've had the oil pump off, taken off the front cover and lined up all the holes on the timing cogs when I put it back together. But could this problem occur if I'm one tooth out on the timing?

Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[smcapstick]

With the injectors out, how does it feel to turn over my hand? Either off the front of the crank or with the starter out and using a pry bar on the ring gear. It should feel nice and free and smooth. If it’s tight, it’s an assembly problem.

Starter motors have a tonne of torque, so they would spin the engine over with the injectors out for fun… even if it were on the point of seizing.

 

[Farmerpickle]

Not smooth at all.

 

[AlCapone]

Did you clean out ring grooves?
How much wear was in piston ring grooves?
My experience of just fitting new rings is a complete waste of time

 

[smcapstick]

What piston ring gap did you have when you tried them in the cylinders?

Did you measure the new shells, or even try them for fit before assembly?

 

[Farmerpickle]

There was not a a lot of wear in the pistons or the old rings. The ring grooves were cleaned upon ring replacement. The new shells were also checked before they were fitted by myself and an engine specialist.

Why I didn't take the whole engine to him and get him to do all the work I'll never know!

The engine looks like it has been fitted up fairly recently but not done correctly as oil was getting past two of the cylinders, hence why I decided to do the rings and shells.

 

[Mur Huwcun]

With a fully charged battery have you tried a blow lamp into intake manifold or is your thermostart working? You mentioned timing, have you actually moved or removed anything timing related? Has injector pump, idler or cam gear been off?

 

[Farmerpickle]

The only thing timing related, that I've touched, is the oil pump. I lined up all the lines and dots on the timing when I put the oil pump back on.

However, I was looking for some marks on the flywheel and I couldn't find any. When I've worked on other tractors there has usually been markings on the flywheel to set the timing, but on the 590 I couldn't find any.
Is there something I've missed?

 

[AlCapone]

Did you turn crankshaft each time you tightened big end cap?

 

[Daveh]

Give it a tow?

 

[Dry Rot]

I had fun and games with my 390. I went through all the checks and everything seemed fine, except for starting. Turned out to be the battery charger showing fully charged when it wasn't working properly. Sometimes it's the simple stuff we miss. Got a new battery charger and it now starts easily. Just a thought!

 

[Mur Huwcun]

The only thing timing related, that I've touched, is the oil pump. I lined up all the lines and dots on the timing when I put the oil pump back on.

However, I was looking for some marks on the flywheel and I couldn't find any. When I've worked on other tractors there has usually been markings on the flywheel to set the timing, but on the 590 I couldn't find any.
Is there something I've missed?

Have they got an oil pump/balancer in the sump? Or pump right at front? Anyhow that would not effect valve or injection timing. Has it bleed properly up to injectors? Both screws on injector pump pouring diesel out? Any diesel smoke? I’d go down the kill or cure route now and try a blow lamp into manifold or tow start if it’s not Multipower to get it going first time!!! Do you have access to an oil pressure gauge to stick on it?

 

[Farmerpickle]

Have they got an oil pump/balancer in the sump? Or pump right at front? Anyhow that would not effect valve or injection timing. Has it bleed properly up to injectors? Both screws on injector pump pouring diesel out? Any diesel smoke? I’d go down the kill or cure route now and try a blow lamp into manifold or tow start if it’s not Multipower to get it going first time!!! Do you have access to an oil pressure gauge to stick on it?

Thank you. Yes, it has got an oil pump balancer in the sump. It's a multipower model. I just can't get the engine turning over fast enough to get the engine to start.

 

[smcapstick]

Ignition isn’t the issue… at least not yet.

If the engine is hard to turn over after a rebuild, something has nipped. It’ll probably have to come back apart.

 

[Farmerpickle]

Thought that would be the case.

 

[MF-ANDY]

If you have the idler gear timed to the crank and the camshaft and injection pump timed to the idler gear it can't be timing.
Run a separate earth lead from the battery direct to the starter.

 

[essexpete]

Couple of things a very knowledgeable man suggests (not me I might add).
Was the crank turning free before pistons installed?
It is possible to distort a small block by incorrect torque up of mains.
Lack of lubrication on rebuild might not help.
For the first point they had it happen on an IH block. They dropped the sump backed off the main caps, refitted sump and oil. Ran the engine to temperature. Dropped oil and sump and re-torqued the mains.
On the second point they have put a T into an oilway and fitted a hand pump to push some oil around the engine.

 

[Farmerpickle]

I've been told it could be the camshaft that is worn as someone said they had one like it before.

Just wanted to know what is it like to replace the camshaft in one of these?