Massey Ferguson question

[Wreckit Ralf]

Massey is a brand I've not got much knowledge on, we haven't owned one since the 90s. But i was in the local dealers the other day and their demonstrator was sitting in the yard (7718?) I was having a quick look around it (really impressive looking tractor) and what stood out to me was that it doesn't appear to have front brakes? Contractor had it out hauling fodder beet and it certainly does 50Kph+, I thought it was legal requirement to fit front brakes in 50kph tractors?

 

[Cowabunga]

Massey is a brand I've not got much knowledge on, we haven't owned one since the 90s. But i was in the local dealers the other day and their demonstrator was sitting in the yard (7718?) I was having a quick look around it (really impressive looking tractor) and what stood out to me was that it doesn't appear to have front brakes? Contractor had it out hauling fodder beet and it certainly does 50Kph+, I thought it was legal requirement to fit front brakes in 50kph tractors?

No different to 40kph as far as I know. Must have front axle braked. That means engaging 4wd when braking in MF's case. I suspect that front brakes will not be long coming now, when ABS becomes compulsory I can't think of any other way of implementing it apart from having brakes on each individual wheel.
Dealers and customers have asked for at least the option of brakes on the front axle for the last fifteen years, ever since 50kph versions became available. The axle manufacturers do have them available but MF have stubbornly refused to make it an option. No idea why they prefer to lose customers than take more money from customers, but that's just how they are.

'S' versions, built to 'Mother Regulations', which should be all new tractors from now on, do have dual circuit brakes and air brakes for trailers.
Fendt don't have brakes in the front axle either. They do have a brake on the front axle drive shaft inside the transmission but, at least in my MF [with the Fendt] vario transmission, it also engages 4wd when braking, so not sure whether the front brake is effective or not. Either or both rear and front brake brakes both ends in this case. They are not independent. Not sure if Fendt themselves engage 4wd in the same way.

 

[michael N123]

The tractors might be capable of 50k but can only do 40k by law ?

So why would there be brake rules for 50 k tractors if it’s not legal anyway

 

[Wreckit Ralf]

@Cowabunga really odd decision that there is a demand for front brakes, the axle manufacturer can supply them, but MF refuse to offer them as an option? Can't understand the logic behind that when their rivals have been fitting front brakes for years.
A bigger surprise is that Fendt don't have front brakes I never knew that.

@michael N123 I just assumed it was a standard thing with 50K tractors, as you can't spec a 50K CNH tractor without them, and I think John Deere is the same.

 

[Tarw Coch]

@Cowabunga really odd decision that there is a demand for front brakes, the axle manufacturer can supply them, but MF refuse to offer them as an option? Can't understand the logic behind that when their rivals have been fitting front brakes for years.
A bigger surprise is that Fendt don't have front brakes I never knew that.

@michael N123 I just assumed it was a standard thing with 50K tractors, as you can't spec a 50K CNH tractor without them, and I think John Deere is the same.

Are you sure you can’t get a 50k Case without front brakes, I’m pretty sure mine hasn’t, can’t see where they’re hidden if they’re fitted.
Edit : did you mean air brakes? My 50k Case has them but not my 50k MF

IIRC Valtra only fit front brakes as standard to their 60k tractors .

 

[Cowabunga]

really odd decision that there is a demand for front brakes, the axle manufacturer can supply them, but MF refuse to offer them as an option? Can't understand the logic behind that when their rivals have been fitting front brakes for years.
A bigger surprise is that Fendt don't have front brakes I never knew that.

Ours is not to reason why. Ours is but to do or die.

I just assumed it was a standard thing with 50K tractors, as you can't spec a 50K CNH tractor without them, and I think John Deere is the same.

Yes, I believe most, if not all 50k CNH tractors have front brakes. Look for brake lines attached to the front hubs inboard of the wheel dish. For all I know some might not have them though.

EDIT. Quotes have got mixed up dreadfully here and I ain't about to unmix it all.

 

[davidroberts30]

@Cowabunga really odd decision that there is a demand for front brakes, the axle manufacturer can supply them, but MF refuse to offer them as an option? Can't understand the logic behind that when their rivals have been fitting front brakes for years.
A bigger surprise is that Fendt don't have front brakes I never knew that.

@michael N123 I just assumed it was a standard thing with 50K tractors, as you can't spec a 50K CNH tractor without them, and I think John Deere is the same.

fendt do have front brakes,same as vario masseys

 

[Cowabunga]

fendt do have front brakes,same as vario masseys

Yes, but as I explained it is on the cardan shaft inside the gearbox. I don't know about Fendt but older MF tractors, and possibly newer ones with this transmission, also engage 4wd when braking, which means that in effect it is no different in operation to other MF tractors with the GIMA transmissions, which do not have a cardan shaft brake. They all brake the diff rather than a specific wheel.

 

[davidroberts30]

Yes, but as I explained it is on the cardan shaft inside the gearbox. I don't know about Fendt but older MF tractors, and possibly newer ones with this transmission, also engage 4wd when braking, which means that in effect it is no different in operation to other MF tractors with the GIMA transmissions, which do not have a cardan shaft brake. They all brake the diff rather than a specific wheel.

You do know how many brake discs are in a vario box compared to the gimma box?

 

[Cowabunga]

You do know how many brake discs are in a vario box compared to the gimma box?

Yes, but that is incidental to how they actually work.

 

[James]

You do know how many brake discs are in a vario box compared to the gimma box?

I don't

 

[Cowabunga]

I don't

They are a different type of brake but depending on model they can have up to five discs each side. The same number as the old MF165 has. Not sure how many are in the pack for the front axle but I would guess its a similar number, but smaller.

 

[Speedstar]

Massey is a brand I've not got much knowledge on, we haven't owned one since the 90s. But i was in the local dealers the other day and their demonstrator was sitting in the yard (7718?) I was having a quick look around it (really impressive looking tractor) and what stood out to me was that it doesn't appear to have front brakes? Contractor had it out hauling fodder beet and it certainly does 50Kph+, I thought it was legal requirement to fit front brakes in 50kph tractors?

No new MF Dyna 6 tractor have front brake the put the 4WD id when the press the brake pedal & all this does is break your front diff , do not go there buy a tractor with front brakes , we have done 3 front diffs on 50kph tractors it is a mad idea & very unsafe

 

[Speedstar]

@Cowabunga really odd decision that there is a demand for front brakes, the axle manufacturer can supply them, but MF refuse to offer them as an option? Can't understand the logic behind that when their rivals have been fitting front brakes for years.
A bigger surprise is that Fendt don't have front brakes I never knew that.

@michael N123 I just assumed it was a standard thing with 50K tractors, as you can't spec a 50K CNH tractor without them, and I think John Deere is the same.

Yes Fendt have front brakes on some models

 

[matttargett4]

Fendt has front brakes on all models

The 4wd is not engaged under braking so the fact the car dan shaft brake is in the gearbox not the axle isn't important.

That's why a vario mf will do the Cardan shaft brake quickly if abused, the actuation for the front brake isn't adjustable, so if the back brakes aren't kept tight the front brake hits first, in a fendt this will worst case scenario lock the front, in an mf because the 4wd comes in the card an shaft brake stops the whole lot until the backs hit, so if you ride the brakes the plates get hot and warp as the Cardin shaft brake is only the same as one side of the rear, 5friction discs I think.

Dyna 6 brakes are totally different, one disc per side in the rear, 4wd is the only front brake.

 

[Speedstar]

Fendt has front brakes on all models

The 4wd is not engaged under braking so the fact the car dan shaft brake is in the gearbox not the axle isn't important.

That's why a vario mf will do the Cardan shaft brake quickly if abused, the actuation for the front brake isn't adjustable, so if the back brakes aren't kept tight the front brake hits first, in a fendt this will worst case scenario lock the front, in an mf because the 4wd comes in the card an shaft brake stops the whole lot until the backs hit, so if you ride the brakes the plates get hot and warp as the Cardin shaft brake is only the same as one side of the rear, 5friction discs I think.

Dyna 6 brakes are totally different, one disc per side in the rear, 4wd is the only front brake.

900 Fendt have disc brakes in the front axle

 

[davidroberts30]

I don't

15 discs,5 each side and 5 on the cardan brake.all same size

 

[multi power]

The tractors might be capable of 50k but can only do 40k by law ?

So why would there be brake rules for 50 k tractors if it’s not legal anyway

Pretty sure 40k tractors have to have some kind of front braking, ie 4wd when you press the brake

 

[multi power]

No new MF Dyna 6 tractor have front brake the put the 4WD id when the press the brake pedal & all this does is break your front diff , do not go there buy a tractor with front brakes , we have done 3 front diffs on 50kph tractors it is a mad idea & very unsafe

Yes 50k tractors are definitely a mad idea, and unsafe

 

[michael N123]

Yes 50k tractors are definitely a mad idea, and unsafe

Not when they have front breaks