Mastitis Game

[Blaithin]

This one could have betting potential. Any advice appreciated, I am working with a couple vets for treatment and hope, just the whole thing is being weird.

Then again, my mastitis experience is limited.

2013 model Fleckvieh. Calves were weaned in September. No issues noted until December. All of a sudden the FR quarter seemed a bit full. Could conceivably be due Feb/March so watched in case it was just starting to bag. Nope. No redness, swelling, or heat, can just feel a consistent lump and express some puss so after the New Year managed to get something for a culture. Test came back Pasteurella multocida.

Woopee....

Planning on hitting it with a few things and stripping as much as we can whenever we can in the hopes the quarter doesn’t explode and fall off when she starts to bag.

But before I put any treatment up the teat we’re going to play around and see if we can get anything for another culture. Because the lump is completely gone. The quarter looks absolutely normal (not that it ever looked really abnormal) and there is nothing to make anyone think that’s even the cow we took the sample from.

I’m not nearly optimistic enough to think she’s managed to fight it off on her own. It’s just sitting in there stewing and waiting for a fresh supply of milk. But what the heck, why not see.

Here’s the udder this morning.

Even when I deal with mastitis it ends up being a BRD bug ?‍?‍

 

[Spudley]

A dry bovine udder is exceptionally good at fighting infections. I'd not be sticking any tubes up that quarter now she's dried up, if I really felt the need to do something she might get a shot of antibiotics.

 

[Blaithin]

Ok... would that advice be the same if the test had come back Staph a or Pseudomonas?

 

[Sharpy]

Couple of things.
1. Its a Fleck, so not a Holstein. In other words its well made and resilient.
2. Its appears to be outside/ very clean conditions so unlikely the infection got in up the teat?
3. It appears healed and the cow is doing fine.

Taking all the above into account I would leave well alone and observe.(Which you will do anyway, paranoia is often the stockmans friend) Quite possibly it got a kick or a knock if it slipped and landed badly. If you really feel you must treat her then I would give her a broad spectrum antibiotic.

 

[buffalo_soldier]

She is dry, just keep an eye on her.

Wanting to do something like messing with a teat now, can lead to the introduction of infection ironically.
It's a bit 6 and two 3's

A broad spectrum injectable if you feel you must do something.

 

[choochter]

I'm no expert in mastitis either but had a dry cow with mastitis in one rear quarter the week before last.

Gave her antibiotic and cleared the quarter - it was clearish watery stuff with not much smell. More antibiotic 3 days later and not much stuff came out. She's back to her very food orientated, vocal self.

I'll just keep an eye on her now, she calves in about 6 weeks time. Don't know why she got mastitis.

 

[Blaithin]

The place I’m at with this one is that all literature says it’s almost impossible to treat and anyone I’ve talked to who’s dealt with it either culls the cow or kills the quarter, or loses the cow.

So...

Option 1 - Treat now. Even if her immune system has managed to beat it (which is hard to confirm at this point but it was there 10 days ago) what’s it going to hurt? Follow proper hygiene and minimize risk of introducing more bacteria.

Option 2 - Wait and see and hope it is gone. Which if it isn’t could result in abscessing blowing out the quarter, losing the quarter and possibly losing the cow due to sepsis.

Unless someone here has had positive tests for Pasteurella and can verify that their immune systems can completely wipe it out and it doesn’t just hide in abscesses to booby trap you.

 

[O'Reilly]

The place I’m at with this one is that all literature says it’s almost impossible to treat and anyone I’ve talked to who’s dealt with it either culls the cow or kills the quarter, or loses the cow.

So...

Option 1 - Treat now. Even if her immune system has managed to beat it (which is hard to confirm at this point but it was there 10 days ago) what’s it going to hurt? Follow proper hygiene and minimize risk of introducing more bacteria.

Option 2 - Wait and see and hope it is gone. Which if it isn’t could result in abscessing blowing out the quarter, losing the quarter and possibly losing the cow due to sepsis.

Unless someone here has had positive tests for Pasteurella and can verify that their immune systems can completely wipe it out and it doesn’t just hide in abscesses to booby trap you.

Contaminated sample?

 

[Blaithin]

Contaminated sample?

It’s not an environmental pathogen.

Vet doesn’t seem to think there’s a chance at all that it was contaminated. It’s not like I picked someone’s nose and they just happened to have that BRD to contaminate the sample.

Plus the sample didn’t culture anything else so even if I somehow contaminated it with a respiratory bacteria, what is the real culprit?

 

[deleted user 837354]

Asked wife. Pathogen either gone now or walled off again so antibiotics wont do much good now. Interesting mastitis bug you have there but its not resistant to the run of the mill products.

 

[Blaithin]

Asked wife. Pathogen either gone now or walled off again so antibiotics wont do much good now. Interesting mastitis bug you have there but its not resistant to the run of the mill products.

Walled off is exactly the issue. Plenty of drugs would work, they just can’t reach well enough for treatment to have a high success rate.

Be easier to treat if it’d just stuck as pneumonia ?‍

 

[Sharpy]

Cattle are incredibly good at sealing off infections, hence tb lesions being found at slaughter in cattle that have passed blood tests. If you are still concerned about infection when the milk comes in then treat the cow then when you fear the infection will come back. At the moment the cow appears to have beaten the infection despite being pregnant and with no drugs. The only people who have responded to this thread have all said leave it alone, give it a jag of antibiotic if you must. I know its your cow, you are responsible for it and feel you must do the absolute best for it but why ask for advice then ignore it?

 

[Cowcorn]

Cow will be fine Blaithin, she has recovered and i wouldnt think she will relapse. Keep a close eye on her when she was is bagging up and I if she gets hard or abnormally swollen then treatment will be needed . Sometimes vets can overdiagnose or like generating bills !!!

 

[RushesToo]

Leave, antibiotic will kill off the natural flora. Let the cow and it's bacteria do its thing.
Keep a watchful eye.

 

[Blaithin]

I know its your cow, you are responsible for it and feel you must do the absolute best for it but why ask for advice then ignore it?

TFF is not the only people I have asked for advice. I’ve asked others who have recommended various treatments as well as options mentioned here. So who’s should I take and who’s should I ignore as you put it?

Some I have talked to have experience with this bacteria as mastitis and have said treat or cull. The only person who replied here that has talked like they have any clue about this specific bacteria is Ollie and his missus. Should I weight the generalized advice you’ve given me over the specific experience of people who have dealt with this strain? Or perhaps you have experience with this and just forgot to include “when I’ve had this mastitis in my cattle I....” part.

While I understand the chance of it potentially being gone, I have a small herd and I’m hesitant to bet all my chips on the hope that one of my cows might have beaten a bacteria that can have such a high rate of serious consequences. As I stated in my options listed above, I don’t see a lot of harm coming out of a treatment done now. At worst it will have no effect or not even be necessary and be a waste of money, at best it will help me keep a handle on it when she freshens so maybe she only loses the quarter.

Apologies if you feel that just because you offered advice, I need to take it.

 

[Sharpy]

TFF is not the only people I have asked for advice. I’ve asked others who have recommended various treatments as well as options mentioned here. So who’s should I take and who’s should I ignore as you put it?

Some I have talked to have experience with this bacteria as mastitis and have said treat or cull. The only person who replied here that has talked like they have any clue about this specific bacteria is Ollie and his missus. Should I weight the generalized advice you’ve given me over the specific experience of people who have dealt with this strain? Or perhaps you have experience with this and just forgot to include “when I’ve had this mastitis in my cattle I....” part.

While I understand the chance of it potentially being gone, I have a small herd and I’m hesitant to bet all my chips on the hope that one of my cows might have beaten a bacteria that can have such a high rate of serious consequences. As I stated in my options listed above, I don’t see a lot of harm coming out of a treatment done now. At worst it will have no effect or not even be necessary and be a waste of money, at best it will help me keep a handle on it when she freshens so maybe she only loses the quarter.

Apologies if you feel that just because you offered advice, I need to take it.

I wasn't meaning to offend you, just wondering what your thought process was which you have now explained. Also you asked for advice, when really you were looking for justification for treatment , and when no one here said they would treat you look like treating anyway.
That's up to you, you're responsible for the beast whatever way it goes, hopefully absolutely no problems whatsoever.

 

[Blaithin]

I’m not offended.

When asking for advice I was prepared for all sorts of answers. I could have received drug recommendations, immune boosting options, homeopathic, organic... I could have received suggestions of killing the quarter, stripping it, culling the cow... I’ve already received probably at least one of each really. If I could predict what people would say I wouldn’t need to ask for advice.

I would love to have the balls to wait and see and have felt that way for the last week. If it was a different strain I might try that approach, or if I could test again and see if it’s still there. But I probably can’t so I don’t think I can wait and see. No matter how many people suggest to.

Just because people might suggest something I’m not game to do doesn’t mean I’m not going to ask for advice. I never know when someone might have an idea that I might be able to try. Hence asking.

 

[buffalo_soldier]

The 1/4 could already be lost. The time to use AB's to target the bug in the report was nearly a fortnight ago.
Broad spectrum long acting dry cow tubes is where you are heading.
If you absolutely must give her a dry cow tube, use loads of cotton wool and surgical spirit.

Clean, clean, let dry, give tube, clean, let dry, give teat sealant, clean, let dry, have her stand for half hour at least.

 

[Beef farmer]

Is it a suckler cow?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

"Will be really interesting to see what happens".

If anything, a bit of Bowen therapy as she bags up and begins to lactate, and a drop or two of MB nosode from your homeopathy stockist up the nostril - while she's dry she's relatively bulletproof