Matbro TS 260 brakes problem

[godala]

Hello guys,

I have a problem with Matbro TS 260 brakes. Recently I've put new seals on cylinders in hubs(they were leaking). I bleeded whole system at nipples in hubs, I am not losing any fluid, I have brakes but brake pedal is spongy and I need to press brake like really hard to stop(literally I must apply whole my weight to brake pedal in order to stop completely). Brake pedal feels like there is still air in system, but I bleeded everything(there is no air comming from nipples, only oil which I circulated twice already).

Should I buy pressure bleeder and try to bleed it that way? Can master cylinder cause this? My brake pedal is not falling down, it has feeling like I am compressing something, but when I press it really hard as far as it goes it actually brakes, after releasing it goes back.

 

[forblue]

Yes sound's like air are you trying to bleed system alone or have you got someone to press pedal if two people you need to pump pedal up keep foot hard on it then release nipple and try to do the nipples furthest away from cyl first.

 

[Renaultman]

@ACEngineering is our resident Matbro expert and all round top bloke. Hopefully he can help you.

 

[godala]

Yes we did it that way. We did it already twice(every wheel 7-8 repeats) rear right wheel first, then rear left, front right, front left. Maybe I should pressure pump oil from nipples up to the master cylinder
Should master cylinder be somehow bleeded? We drained whole system while replacing seals in hubs.

Master cylinder and brake diagram looks like one in attachment

 

[startinghandle]

What brake fluid are you using??

 

[godala]

Mineral oil as recommeded, I guess someone in the past accidentaly used dot4 and that is the reason I had to change seals in hubs

 

[startinghandle]

Did you renew seal in master cylinder?

 

[godala]

No, but cylinder holds normally, there is no falling of pedal

 

[startinghandle]

Have you followed pipe from master cylinder to axle to make sure there is no more bleed screws

 

[Farmer_Joe]

our matbro always had horrendous brakes compared to jcb's as you say whole effort to stop it pretty much,

i hope you find a solution

 

[ACEngineering]

Mineral oil as recommeded, I guess someone in the past accidentaly used dot4 and that is the reason I had to change seals in hubs

Dot 4 brake fluid is safe for the wheel hubs as the seals are same as Sanderson and they used Dot4.

The brake master cylinder how ever is not compatible with DOT4 and must have LHM oil in it.

When the cylinder runs dry you need to take the dash off unscrew the top of cylinder and fill with oil first. Then fill the reservoir. Otherwise you always get a pocket of air trapped in the built in cylinder reservoir which is part of its casing.

This cylinder is a 2 stage one.
So first stage is high volume low pressure. When the pressure builds up on the first stage it blows off a internal relief valve in the cylinder so it can start the second stage which is low volume high pressure.
IF some idiot has screwed the relief valve up tight or its stuck it will never start the second stage and brakes will be poor taking alot of effort on the pedal.

A seal kit comes with a new relief valve and if its had Dot4 in it before then you will need to reseal it.

 

[godala]

Dot 4 brake fluid is safe for the wheel hubs as the seals are same as Sanderson and they used Dot4.

The brake master cylinder how ever is not compatible with DOT4 and must have LHM oil in it.

When the cylinder runs dry you need to take the dash off unscrew the top of cylinder and fill with oil first. Then fill the reservoir. Otherwise you always get a pocket of air trapped in the built in cylinder reservoir which is part of its casing.

This cylinder is a 2 stage one.
So first stage is high volume low pressure. When the pressure builds up on the first stage it blows off a internal relief valve in the cylinder so it can start the second stage which is low volume high pressure.
IF some idiot has screwed the relief valve up tight or its stuck it will never start the second stage and brakes will be poor taking alot of effort on the pedal.

A seal kit comes with a new relief valve and if its had Dot4 in it before then you will need to reseal it.

I hope this will solve the problem. I pulled out master cylinder this morning and looks like somebody screwed relief valve cap(one which presses the spring) all the way in, I made lot of effort just to unscrew it. I will put master cylinder back today and I hope it will fix a problem.

Should I bleed master cylinder or will it bleed automaticaly if I bleed whole system at hubs again?

Thank you very much!!

 

[ACEngineering]

I hope this will solve the problem. I pulled out master cylinder this morning and looks like somebody screwed relief valve cap(one which presses the spring) all the way in, I made lot of effort just to unscrew it. I will put master cylinder back today and I hope it will fix a problem.

Should I bleed master cylinder or will it bleed automaticaly if I bleed whole system at hubs again?

Thank you very much!!

Take cap off cylinder fill plastic pot and cylinder when both are full put cap back on cylinder and bleed at hubs front and rear as normal.

You may not want to unscrew relief valve fully? Not sure were they should be set imo but I would start with unscrewing it so adjuster is level with body of valve.

 

[Farmer_Joe]

I hope this will solve the problem. I pulled out master cylinder this morning and looks like somebody screwed relief valve cap(one which presses the spring) all the way in, I made lot of effort just to unscrew it. I will put master cylinder back today and I hope it will fix a problem.

Should I bleed master cylinder or will it bleed automaticaly if I bleed whole system at hubs again?

Thank you very much!!

i bet some fadge did this to ours, we got it second hand and they were always the same, it got demoted to another farm and i rarely used it and tried to stear clear!

 

[ACEngineering]

i bet some fadge did this to ours, we got it second hand and they were always the same, it got demoted to another farm and i rarely used it and tried to stear clear!

Quite possibly, when them cylinders are working correctly TS260 brakes are not too bad and work quite well. Later models like TS270 and TS280 all had power assisted brakes off the hydraulic pump and were much better again although they were harsher on the discs.

 

[Dave W]

Quite possibly, when them cylinders are working correctly TS260 brakes are not too bad and work quite well. Later models like TS270 and TS280 all had power assisted brakes off the hydraulic pump and were much better again although they were harsher on the discs.

I bought a matbro once from a dodgy bloke. Brakes been crap from day one
Rest of the old girl is

 

[ACEngineering]

I bought a matbro once from a dodgy bloke. Brakes been crap from day one
Rest of the old girl is

Not guilty! Previous owner always serviced it themselves same as the replacement i sold them I just sell them parts or do the bigger jobs.

Can normally feel on the pedal the relief valve blow off and the second stage kick in once you know what your feeling for.
Might also want some new brakes discs by now too! once the groves wear off they dont displace the oil very well and not as good. on later machines with power assisted you wouldn't notice it as brakes are a lot better, first think you know about it normally is the piston seals have popped out and fill the hub with oil, often the disc has by this time gone steel to steel and knackered the pressure plates too.

 

[Dave W]

Not guilty! Previous owner always serviced it themselves same as the replacement i sold them

Can normally feel on the pedal the relief valve blow off and the second stage kick in once you know what your feeling for.
Might also want some new brakes discs by now too! once the groves wear off they dont displace the oil very well and not as good. on later machines with power assisted you wouldn't notice it as brakes are a lot better, first think you know about it normally is the piston seals have popped out and fill the hub with oil, often the disc has by this time gone steel to steel and knackered the pressure plates too.

Had a new master cylinder last year. Brakes were never the greatest but think they're worse with new cylinder

 

[ACEngineering]

Had a new master cylinder last year. Brakes were never the greatest but think they're worse with new cylinder

Play with the valve, they normally only centre dot the top of it to stop it turning in the body, maybe its moved or was never set from new?
or maybe you just need new discs etc. When you last change the hub oils and what did you put back in them?

 

[Dave W]

Play with the valve, they normally only centre dot the top of it to stop it turning in the body, maybe its moved or was never set from new?
or maybe you just need new discs etc. When you last change the hub oils and what did you put back in them?

Did the oils not long after. Local lad is a matbro geek and he advised which oils. Can't recall what it had just now.
the brakes work fine. Just a bit embarrassing when you get on something and launch yourself through windscreen first time you brake