Maternal sheep

[Green farmer]

Been using a llyen ram in my flock of texel x sheep for 3 seasons and using his daughters as cornerstone of the flock. Need to get another maternal ram. I like the llyens and find them good ewes, easy to work with, but some of the lambs can be abit too small, open minded to trying something else. Thinking another llyen, easycare or a Nz Romney ( how do they cross with llyen ? ) . Mid season, mixed quality lowland farm. Smallish flock. Also I like quietish type of sheep. Getting lambs away at 20-21kgs is the target with little lambing assistance.

 

[Al R]

I never thought I'd say this but try Aberfield.. big roomy ewes with stacks of milk. Their basically a BFL x Texel.

 

[neilo]

Been using a llyen ram in my flock of texel x sheep for 3 seasons and using his daughters as cornerstone of the flock. Need to get another maternal ram. I like the llyens and find them good ewes, easy to work with, but some of the lambs can be abit too small, open minded to trying something else. Thinking another llyen, easycare or a Nz Romney ( how do they cross with llyen ? ) . Mid season, mixed quality lowland farm. Smallish flock. Also I like quietish type of sheep. Getting lambs away at 20-21kgs is the target with little lambing assistance.

A NZ Romney X Lleyn would give you a grand maternal ewe I'd have thought, but lots of wool and perhaps lower KO%/poorer selling mart lambs. Easycares won't improve your lambs' confirmation or growth over a Lleyn, as they would be similar sheep but without the wool.

An Aberfield, as suggested above, would give you faster growing lambs and a bot more shape by all accounts, but a few mutterings about lambing %age are surfacing (which may be OK as a lleyn X?).

Given you location, what about a Belclare? Or source a faster growing Lleyn, from a recorded flock, not one that looks big on sale day?

 

[M-J-G]

A NZ Romney X Lleyn would give you a grand maternal ewe I'd have thought, but lots of wool and perhaps lower KO%/poorer selling mart lambs. Easycares won't improve your lambs' confirmation or growth over a Lleyn, as they would be similar sheep but without the wool.

An Aberfield, as suggested above, would give you faster growing lambs and a bot more shape by all accounts, but a few mutterings about lambing %age are surfacing (which may be OK as a lleyn X?).

Given you location, what about a Belclare? Or source a faster growing Lleyn, from a recorded flock, not one that looks big on sale day?

I take it you're not advocating a NZ Texel x Lleyn?

 

[irish dom]

What about a good belclare? Conformation has improved drastically and the mental litter sizes have been dampened well. From what I have seen from other guys there is no problem killing ram lambs off grass I am very impressed with the modern belclare and will be crossing my pure lleyn ewes this year to put a bit more power in them. I would class them as a maternal texel.

 

[neilo]

I take it you're not advocating a NZ Texel x Lleyn?

No, I don't think I made mention of that cross. No doubt someone else will be along shortly that will do so though.

 

[irish dom]

I never thought I'd say this but try Aberfield.. big roomy ewes with stacks of milk. Their basically a BFL x Texel.

Every time I go back to a BFL ram or a cross with BFL in it I am delighted with the size and sharpness of ewe lambs.
However when I am meeting the barstewards in the race at weaning and culling them out at 3 crops or less I know why I went away from them. And of course their sire is long gone cos that's what they do.
I was reared in the hills breeding mules and taking big pride in them but when you take the blue Leicester out and look at it on its own you wonder how the he'll it adds anything to a commercial ewe. Just my opinion. Maybe I have always had the wrong ones but when they are bad they are awful.
Fair play to innovis for putting a spin on them but I wouldn't be paying a ransom for them. Sure couldn't anyone slap a good texel on blue ewes and call it a fancy name!
Tin hat on

 

[Al R]

We've had consistently good welsh mules from our BFL with some only dropping corners at 6-7 year old having always reared twins even when ewe lambs.
We find them easy lambing on the welsh and Glamorgans to make our mules. We were putting them to the ewe lambs for easy lambing but they don't kill out well so we've moved to Charolais on the ewe lambs with 50% killed before weaning.
The pure BFL's are a different kettle of fish which need as much care when born as possible

The aberfield theoretically should be what the OP is looking for? We've had very mixed results ourselves with the 2 Rams we had and we won't be replacing with the same but we wanted to try to see if they'd suit us instead of the BFL.

 

[willy]

Try a logie

 

[beardface]

Got some Lleyn x romney gimmers this time they looked well at weaning. I'd say if you want ones that produce lambs that will go mart as well as dead then pick more texel types with clean heads. If deadweight only then won't matter what there like. I'll know if it's a good cross when I breed them as shearlings. They look good roomy sorts though and not as wild as the sufftex x types I was breeding before.

 

[irish dom]

The mules done you well no doubt.
I agree that the pures need alot of attention and that is my main problem with the breed. For a crossing sire on a hill ewe why o why cant they be improved so that they in pure form could be lambed outside and perform in commercial conditions like their progeny are expected to. Instead it's a gamble on over fed and "pretty" December born ram lambs that have had their head I a trough all summer. Not exactly fit for purpose is it? Fired out onto a cold hill in November to run after wee hill ewes. Suprised any of them live

 

[Al R]

The mules done you well no doubt.
I agree that the pures need alot of attention and that is my main problem with the breed. For a crossing sire on a hill ewe why o why cant they be improved so that they in pure form could be lambed outside and perform in commercial conditions like their progeny are expected to. Instead it's a gamble on over fed and "pretty" December born ram lambs that have had their head I a trough all summer. Not exactly fit for purpose is it? Fired out onto a cold hill in November to run after wee hill ewes. Suprised any of them live

So am I actually, our BFL's lamb last few days of February usually just before the commercials. We've got some cracking ram lambs this year that have had no feed and we're march born, 4 of them would be circa 55-60kg now? A few in the mid to late 40's then. It did help we put a beltex into the BFL flock for 1 season 15 years ago and it changed their shape dramatically!

 

[irish dom]

T

So am I actually, our BFL's lamb last few days of February usually just before the commercials. We've got some cracking ram lambs this year that have had no feed and we're march born, 4 of them would be circa 55-60kg now? A few in the mid to late 40's then. It did help we put a beltex into the BFL flock for 1 season 15 years ago and it changed their shape dramatically!

That's some performance from grass. Proper honest sheep!

 

[CopperBeech]

When you say too small, what do you mean?

Ewes to small in mature weight?

Lambs getting over fat too small?

Killing out bad?

Born small?

 

[Green farmer]

Thanks lads, some interesting comments and ideas being suggested. The ram is throwing nice lambs, the ewes split them out which I really like but not enough of them are big enough to put to the ram in the autumn, they seem to stall abit shy of breeding size and end up carried over dry until the following year. I don't have the best land and I suppose this doesn't help either.

 

[CopperBeech]

Thanks lads, some interesting comments and ideas being suggested. The ram is throwing nice lambs, the ewes split them out which I really like but not enough of them are big enough to put to the ram in the autumn, they seem to stall abit shy of breeding size and end up carried over dry until the following year. I don't have the best land and I suppose this doesn't help either.

Maybe a lleyn with better growth traits?

Is it the ram or the ewes / ground i.e milk etc?

 

[Green farmer]

think the lambs are just lacking a small bit of length.

 

[CopperBeech]

If you're happy with lleyns, get a better lleyn tup.

If not then an aberfield.

 

[Keepers]

I'd try an aberfield on them

 

[hendrebc]

Or source a faster growing Lleyn, from a recorded flock, not one that looks big on sale day?

Very important that you pick one from a recorded flock for growth and not just a big looking one on sale day. The big ones on sale day tend to be a lanky skinny mule type that grow like hell but you cant put meat on them without bags of feed. You would do well to stay away from this type of lleyn.