Mating sheep on red clover swards field lab

[SteveHants]

View attachment 987166

That's a funny looking sheep!

 

[sheepwise]

What effect does feeding red clover silage to ewes for 2 months pre lambing have on future fertility ? @Global ovine

 

[Derrick Hughes]

What effect does feeding red clover silage to ewes for 2 months pre lambing have on future fertility ? @Global ovine

If its dry silage levels will be higher ,

 

[gpreece]

The Innovative Farmers field lab is being set up to minimize the effect of other factors such as breed, age or body condition score of sheep and health status/previous management. This is so we can be confident that any differences in scanning results between the group mated on the red clover sward and the control group are due to the presence of red clover in the sward.

 

[gpreece]

The Innovative Farmers field lab is being set up to minimise the effect of other factors such as breed, age or body condition score of sheep and health status/previous management. This is so we can be confident that any differences in scanning results between the group mated on the red clover sward and the control group are due to the presence of red clover in the sward.

 

[gpreece]

This kind of thing ought to be in the research proposal, and then ought to be apparent if any papers are published in the scientific literature as a result of the study.

I'm not sure if ADAS make their proposals available online?

I imagine it's one of the reasons they are running several groups.

The Innovative Farmers field lab (being run by ADAS) is being set up to minimise the effect of other factors such as breed, age or body condition score of sheep and health status/previous management. This is so we can be confident that any differences in scanning results between the group mated on the red clover sward and the control group are due to the presence of red clover in the sward. If you want to keep track of progress register with Innovative Farmers (on their website) to receive updates.

 

[gpreece]

My question about these kind of studies is also - how do you make it a fair test? Surely groups of sheep on different farms, run by different people etc would have a lot of variables?

The Innovative Farmers field lab is being set up to minimise the effect of other factors such as breed, age or body condition score of sheep and health status/previous management. This is so we can be confident that any differences in scanning results between the group mated on the red clover sward and the control group are due to the presence of red clover in the sward.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

The Innovative Farmers field lab (being run by ADAS) is being set up to minimise the effect of other factors such as breed, age or body condition score of sheep and health status/previous management. This is so we can be confident that any differences in scanning results between the group mated on the red clover sward and the control group are due to the presence of red clover in the sward. If you want to keep track of progress register with Innovative Farmers (on their website) to receive updates.

If its a mixed sward as GS4 is containing other legumes how can you then say with all honesty is due to red clover ,

 

[gpreece]

If its a mixed sward as GS4 is containing other legumes how can you then say with all honesty is due to red clover ,

Red clover is the only legume in a GS4 mix which produces phytooestrogens and which could therefore negatively affect ewe fertility.

 

[CopperBeech]

The Innovative Farmers field lab is being set up to minimise the effect of other factors such as breed, age or body condition score of sheep and health status/previous management. This is so we can be confident that any differences in scanning results between the group mated on the red clover sward and the control group are due to the presence of red clover in the sward.

There would be a lot of factors you couldn’t see, do you do metabolic profiles on the sheep? Look at a five year scan history ? Check mineral and parasite status ? Soil type? Grass growth / clover growth etc etc ?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Red clover is the only legume in a GS4 mix which produces phytooestrogens and which could therefore negatively affect ewe fertility.

All legumes do and even Ryegrass producces small amounts
Its the total amount in the diet that couses the problem , Red Clover would be at a lot higher level

This is the Conclusion of a Relatively recent study of Legumes , 2016 ,​

The greatest isoflavone content was found in red clover. In the forage generally, biochanin A and formononetin were mainly present. Other isoflavones detected were genistein, ononin, sissotrin, daidzein, and daidzin. Although the lowest amounts of isoflavones occurred in Persian clover, it can be said from the viewpoint of statistical evaluation that the contents of isoflavones in Persian clover, Berseem clover, and alfalfa were comparable. There was a clear tendency for isoflavone content to increase due to wilting. There was a strong influence on phytoestrogens content due to differences between species. By their proportions of individual substances, the perennial alfalfa and annual Persian clover proved to be very similar, and the processing of the harvested forage could also affect these. Wilted forage was shown to represent a potential feeding risk in comparison to fresh-cut forage due to its increased content of anti-nutritional substances

 

[Global ovine]

All legumes do and even Ryegrass producces small amounts
Its the total amount in the diet that couses the problem , Red Clover would be at a lot higher level

This is the Conclusion of a Relatively recent study of Legumes , 2016 ,​

The greatest isoflavone content was found in red clover. In the forage generally, biochanin A and formononetin were mainly present. Other isoflavones detected were genistein, ononin, sissotrin, daidzein, and daidzin. Although the lowest amounts of isoflavones occurred in Persian clover, it can be said from the viewpoint of statistical evaluation that the contents of isoflavones in Persian clover, Berseem clover, and alfalfa were comparable. There was a clear tendency for isoflavone content to increase due to wilting. There was a strong influence on phytoestrogens content due to differences between species. By their proportions of individual substances, the perennial alfalfa and annual Persian clover proved to be very similar, and the processing of the harvested forage could also affect these. Wilted forage was shown to represent a potential feeding risk in comparison to fresh-cut forage due to its increased content of anti-nutritional substances

It is the Formonoetin content that is of concern, as it converts to EQUOL in the rumen which is the active estrogenic agent. Other isoflavones are of much less consequence even in combination.
Plant breeders in NZ list the estrogenic rating of RC varieties bred in NZ. Therefore this surely can be done for those cultivars in use in the UK.

What effect does feeding red clover silage to ewes for 2 months pre lambing have on future fertility ? @Global ovine

@Derrick Hughes has kindly answered this. I add that the Formononetin levels do no reduce when RC is made into hay or silage, but become more concentrated as the DM of the product increases.


A general comment; the estrogenic effect on mature ewes from RC derived Equol continues beyond birthing. Therefore any research should include birthing difficulties as one of main detrimental effect is the physiological closing and stiffening of the cervix preventing the foetus from ease of parturition, ie they get stuck. To only measure up to scanning the number of embryos is just a half job.

 

[IFarmers]

Hi all,

I thought you'd be interested in the results of the red clover and sheep fertility field lab which were released yesterday.

Farmer-led research disproves red clover fears on sheep fertility

www.innovativefarmers.org

Please keep us looped in (ideally on twitter at @IFarmers) on any more experiments or anecdotal evidence you are discovering on your own farms. And let us know if these results will encourage you to sow a higher density of red clover in your leys?

Cheers,

Dan -Innovative Farmers