Metaldehyde to be withdrawn for outdoor uses

[Dolomite]

Having seen how gardeners and allotment keepers and people of that ilk painted the ground blue with them. I’d consider a huge proportion of the contamination in this country cans from them. But as they are private users and not commercial the gov haven’t wanted to control them. Industry is the easy target.

 

[Bogweevil]

Having seen how gardeners and allotment keepers and people of that ilk painted the ground blue with them. I’d consider a huge proportion of the contamination in this country cans from them. But as they are private users and not commercial the gov haven’t wanted to control them. Industry is the easy target.

Amateur formulations will be banned too for outdoor use. Cannot see how limited amateur use in spring and summer would be more damaging than wide scale agricultural use in autumn.

Interesting to see if any manufacturers think it worthwhile to offer greenhouse only, amateur or professional metaldehyde - such a small market. Nematode biocontrol feasible for high value greenhouse crops of course.

 

[BenB]

EDDS is still recognised as a chelating agent, not sure what is in Sluxx difficult to track down

I know edta is what sluxx says it doesn’t have ...

Just looked back through some notes where we had Certis talk to us, they confirmed it is EDDS in Sluxx.

(My note actually says 'EDTS', assume I copied/heard it incorrectly).

 

[Brisel]

I take it from your post you intimate the EU will have the more draconian approach?! If so I have a suspicion that it is more likely once UK takes back control (to use the mantra) the UK government, particularly if Mr Gove et al are still in charge at Defra may prove more draconian and we shall become familiar with immediate withdrawl of prodcuts/actives. But who knows maybe the opposite may happen as UK becomes a low regulation, free market, devil may care economy.

Time will tell.

I was thinking of the EU revocations of neonics, triazoles and possible removals of CTL, mancozeb, yes.

 

[Hindsight]

I was thinking of the EU revocations of neonics, triazoles and possible removals of CTL, mancozeb, yes.

OK, but within the EU for 2019 most countries have granted a dispensation to sugar beet growers for seed treatments - Mr Gove has not. So looking forward I doubt if Mr Gove will allow things in UK that are banned in EU and it is very likely I expect for him to be more in favour of bans. But only time will tell and I may well be wrong in my negative view at the moment - once days get longer I may get more upbeat!!

 

[Feldspar]

I know edta is what sluxx says it doesn’t have ...

Yes, you are right. My mistake.

 

[jonnieboy]

The presentation I saw from Yorkshire water put a hefty price on the abstraction of metaldehyde.
I think more and more we will have to acknowledge the true cost of food production
Joe public pays his taxes which farmers get a chunk of in payments, said farmer then throws pellets all over, then joe publics water bill goes up to pay for the removal of said products from his drinking water
In fact we should be happy they have played the environment card !

 

[Feldspar]

It doesn’t have EDTA
Probably EDDS

It can’t work without them as the iron isn’t soluble .

Iron phosphate was banned by EU as food additive in 2009. Sluxx appears by magic months later !!

Absolute joke huge hole in regulatory system.
Ie chelator on its own “inert” not subject to regulation. Added to “active ingredient” it becomes critical but no need to mention etc

How safe is it to humans do you think? Safety data sheet does have dermal and oral LD50 for rats, which is quite high, but little other detail I can find.

 

[shakerator]

Yes, you are right. My mistake.

It is cunning isn’t it

Once you learn how this stuff works you become a natural cynic

 

[shakerator]

How safe is it to humans do you think? Safety data sheet does have dermal and oral LD50 for rats, which is quite high, but little other detail I can find.

Basic points

Ferric phosphate is safe

EDTA is fairly safe and used in foodstuffs.

It is the synergistic reaction which makes toxicity (stomach poison )

At least meta had a unique mode of action as a dehydrant- that was relatively specific to slugs.

 

[Feldspar]

Basic points

Ferric phosphate is safe

EDTA is fairly safe and used in foodstuffs.

It is the synergistic reaction which makes toxicity (stomach poison )

At least meta had a unique mode of action as a dehydrant- that was relatively specific to slugs.

So you would wear as much PPE and treat with as much respect from an operator safety point of view as any other pesticide?

 

[shakerator]

So you would wear as much PPE and treat with as much respect from an operator safety point of view as any other pesticide?

Yes more so than meta.

There have been serious mammalian poisoning’s from formulations.....all lab toxicity tests are based on “active ingredient “ alone which in its form isn’t going to cause iron poisoning

Beggining to see the joke now ?!

 

[Feldspar]

Yes more so than meta.

There have been serious mammalian poisoning’s from formulations.....all lab toxicity tests are based on “active ingredient “ alone which in its form isn’t going to cause iron poisoning

Beggining to see the joke now ?!

Very interesting thanks. Did do a fair bit of reading on earthworm toxicity a while back and saw findings then that ferric phosphate based slug pellets were more toxic to earthworms than metaldehyde.

What hadn't quite clicked was that it was the synergism between the two that alone caused the toxicity. Just in the middle of reading this:
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0100-40422003000600020&script=sci_arttext&tlng=es

 

[Happy]

I’m sure you are right harmful products will be removed from the list speedily. One of the benefits of Brexit.

It’s so much just the pesticides though.
It’s total disregard of importance of UK ag industry that’s concerning.
They want us at such a competitive disadvantage with one hand behind our backs that we can’t compete on production grounds thereby heralding in the new non producing rewilding vision they have of the future.

This and what’s to come like it are merely their tools to get us there.
Uk can tick the green box whilst it’s population live on imported food produced elsewhere, no questions asked.

 

[B'o'B]

It’s so much just the pesticides though.
It’s total disregard of importance of UK ag industry that’s concerning.
They want us at such a competitive disadvantage with one hand behind our backs that we can’t compete on production grounds thereby heralding in the new non producing rewilding vision they have of the future.

This and what’s to come like it are merely their tools to get us there.
Uk can tick the green box whilst it’s population live on imported food produced elsewhere no questions asked.

It is no coincidence that the new Agriculture Bill doesn’t state that food production is a priority, or mention at all really.
It’s looking more and more like it should be called The Landscape Management Bill.

 

[fudge]

It’s so much just the pesticides though.
It’s total disregard of importance of UK ag industry that’s concerning.
They want us at such a competitive disadvantage with one hand behind our backs that we can’t compete on production grounds thereby heralding in the new non producing rewilding vision they have of the future.

This and what’s to come like it are merely their tools to get us there.
Uk can tick the green box whilst it’s population live on imported food produced elsewhere, no questions asked.

Mmmm I find it very frustrating. The brexiteers are very keen for a trade deal with the USA. American farmers are part of Trump’s core support. Either by political accident or design UK ag will find itself competing with the American continent with both hands tied. Luckily we are quite ingenious.

 

[Exfarmer]

Very interesting thanks. Did do a fair bit of reading on earthworm toxicity a while back and saw findings then that ferric phosphate based slug pellets were more toxic to earthworms than metaldehyde.

What hadn't quite clicked was that it was the synergism between the two that alone caused the toxicity. Just in the middle of reading this:
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0100-40422003000600020&script=sci_arttext&tlng=es

I did a bit of research a couple of years back , as was concerned my grandson loves playing in the garden and we use slug control, but not impressed with ferric phosphate. The cnclusion was there is little difference in danger between the two and the metaaldehyde had bitrex in them.
The only known case of accidental death by Meta poisoning was when pure liquid product was available as an all over spray

 

[Steevo]

It’s so much just the pesticides though.
It’s total disregard of importance of UK ag industry that’s concerning.
They want us at such a competitive disadvantage with one hand behind our backs that we can’t compete on production grounds thereby heralding in the new non producing rewilding vision they have of the future.

This and what’s to come like it are merely their tools to get us there.
Uk can tick the green box whilst it’s population live on imported food produced elsewhere, no questions asked.

Exactly!!

Trouble is they’re going about it the wrong way in my book. If they made it attractive for farmers to change....it wouldn’t take much to make them jump. Renewables is a perfect example of a market being reactive.

Given the poor returns of many farms, it wouldn’t take much incentive for them to change to something else.

Trouble is....the govt don’t want to be seen to be endorsing it. They’d rather stay out of it and be able to lay the blame on others than risk being implicated themselves.

 

[Fossil]

The only shame of it is I bet its still found for years yet, and we've missed a trick by not getting water companies to sponsor us voluntarily not using it much earlier.

I know it was done in areas, but could it have been rolled out wholesale?

If anyone other than a farmer said “give me money or I will poison your water supply” they would be called a terrorists!

 

[shakerator]

There is a simple play on all these withdrawals ....

Buy and store your wheat...