MF 575 pto confusion :-D

[Ger575]

Hi guys,

Fledgeling tractor restoration questions

Pto feels like grinding when trying to engage if there is something like a topper on that takes a bit to get it started spinning. Goes in fine where there is a lighter inertia load like a fert shaker or haybob.

Tractor has single stage clutch, so would suggest ipto, but am pretty certain it has groundspeed-pto when the lever is forward.........which would suggest live pto as I thought independent pto only had engine speed options (ie 540 or 1000) and not land drive?

Clutch does not disrupt hydraulics or pto so that enforces the IPTO and split torque clutch setup. PTO has no slip once engaged and disengages properly. PTO brake is functioning correctly. Engaging and disengaging is always done (by me anyways lol) at idle which is currently just shy of 700

However, surely with an IPTO, you wouldn't feel the grinding type sensation when trying to engage regardless of the malfunction in the system (confused dot com LOL)

Some one of you guys might have a link to a useful thread or else be able to explain the ins and outs of the setup to me as to the workings of the system.

What tests do I need to go through to diagnose the issue properly. Won't be splitting tractor till winter at least tho. I assume testing the pressure at the clutch pack will be first on the list, this should be in the ballpark of 250psi I think so I guess I'll know the state of the control valve based on the reading I get. Things like replacing the pack clutch plates, washers and springs etc are easy to do if needed, although more modern tractors you can often access the packs/hyd pumps etc etc for service or replacement simply through the top cover or some inspection port..........without needing to split the tractor.

Any help in getting my head around this would be most appreciated. It's a 1976 Coventry built tractor.

Hope the above is as clear as mud LOL

 

[multi power]

If you have ground drive it's not ipto
I'd say the clutch needs a bit of adjustment
But you say the brake is working, only ipto model has a brake

 

[MF-ANDY]

You will have a dual clutch if you have ground speed. The gate for your pto lever should have a forward and backward position. One for ground speed one for engine speed. I'm guessing your dual clutch is out on adjustment and you can't feel the second clutch. Remove the plate under the bell housing and look up at clutch. If it is dual there will be three equally spaced 5/16" headed bolts with Lock nuts. Adjust the head of the bolt until there is 80thou clearance between it and the second pressure plate then adjust the turn buckle for the main clutch until you have 1" pedal free play allowing for any wear in the linkage. You should then feel the second clutch although if it hasn't been used for a while the pto plate may well be stuck.
Have you got a circlip to locate your pto shaft and allow you to change it from 6 to 21 spline. If it has this then you have ipto as ground speed had a fixed 6 spline shaft. Also look at the pto side cover. An ipto tractor will have a test port on it. A ground speed wont

 

[Bloders]

our 590 has the circlip on the PTO but not groundspeed and it is NOT IPTO...

When ous struggled to get into gear, after ensuring it was not the clutch (if it is dual clutch and you want to stop the innards turning, raise the hydraulic lever to constant pumping when your foot is ont the clutch. if the clutch is dragging just a little, this will bring it to a halt). i replaced the bearing the PTO shaft sits in as the enging gear could not "mount" it as it was worn. worked perfect since.

hope that majkes sense

 

[MF-ANDY]

shouldn't need to do that with a properly adjusted clutch. never seen an interchangable shaft on any thing other than an ipto tractor.

 

[Ger575]

I take it the inspection panel is where the mounting point for a loader bracket is down there.....

Pto lever has two positions, forwards and back.

What is the best way of un-sticking the pto clutch plate if indeed it has gotten stuck and won't budge back and forth?

Pedal currently has about one inch of free travel so that adjustment seems ok, no discernable 2nd stage tho which is largely what had me rightly bloomin confused LOL.

Thank you mfandy and everybody else for helping with my daft questions

You are not a bad bunch, as they say :-D

 

[MF-ANDY]

yes that is the plate. make sure your 1" of free travel is free travel and not wear in the linkage pins. if in doubt look up thro the inpsection hole and adjust turnbuckle on linkage until you have about 1/8" clearance between the release bearing and the adjusting bolts on the clutch fingers. If after you have adjusted the pto clutch screws previously mentioned you find the plate is stuck you could try lowering a piece of heavy equipment like a power harrow into the ground while pushing the pedal right down to see if it will free off, if not the only way will be to split the tractor and strip the clutch

 

[Ger575]

I was laying on the wet dewy grass at the time (lovely LOL) and the one setscrew I could see without cranking the engine around seemed pretty close to the 2mm mark to my eyes, the little monkey is marked with an arrow in my pic below

Release bearing is a lot more than 1/8" from the clutch fingers so I've probably gotten pedal free play confused with linkage wear betwixt the pedal and the actual clutch actuator. Will dive in there tonight maybe or in the morn, as I'm now off fishing LOL

 

[MF-ANDY]

Yes that's a pro adjusting screw and 2mm is about 80thou so that's alright but wear in the linkage will cause your pedal to bottom out before you get full travel to the clutch. You can remove the linkage. Drill out and fit oversize pins

 

[Ger575]

And here's my pto lever with the two positions.......

With a bit of luck my woes might be sorted by adjusting the pedal then. If the plate is a bit stuck, I'll have to substitute a transport box full of concrete posts in place of the power harrow which I don't yet own lol.

The one setscrew I could see seemed about right for adjustment tho, so assuming the other two are ok (will check by marking them with tippex to know which ones I've done) I get the linkage adjusted correctly and see how I am fixed thereafter

 

[MF-ANDY]

the pin between the pedal and the vertical link, and the pin between the vertical link and the bell crank are the ones that wear. you can remove the vertical link and the bell crank and drill them out from 3/8" to 7/16" but it is a job to remove the pedal, so i usually drill a hole inline with the pedal pin, thro the cab metal work after removing the dashboard cover then you can enlarge the pedal hole without removing it.

 

[multi power]

And here's my pto lever with the two positions.......View attachment 554140
With a bit of luck my woes might be sorted by adjusting the pedal then. If the plate is a bit stuck, I'll have to substitute a transport box full of concrete posts in place of the power harrow which I don't yet own lol.

The one setscrew I could see seemed about right for adjustment tho, so assuming the other two are ok (will check by marking them with tippex to know which ones I've done) I get the linkage adjusted correctly and see how I am fixed thereafter

You will need a pto driven implement to free stuck clutch, but hopefully getting the adjustment right will sort it

 

[Ger575]

Can make new pins or link rods in the workshop here anyways. Loads of en24t and a fair bit of A2 in the drawer and some chromed dowels if I'm feeling really lazy :-D

Thanks Andy

 

[Bloders]

shouldn't need to do that with a properly adjusted clutch. never seen an interchangable shaft on any thing other than an ipto tractor.

come here and ill show you one!

dont understand what i shouldnt need to do? cutch was disengaging drive but could not get pto to engage as the pto shaft had dropped ever so slightly due to the wear in the bearing. New bearing and all good now.

 

[MF-ANDY]

come here and ill show you one!

dont understand what i shouldnt need to do? cutch was disengaging drive but could not get pto to engage as the pto shaft had dropped ever so slightly due to the wear in the bearing. New bearing and all good now.

so you could in theory fit a 21 spline 1000rpm shaft as you have a circlip? when you were inside was there a sliding coupler engage pto instead of a gear as there would be on a ground speed machine?

 

[Bloders]

so you could in theory fit a 21 spline 1000rpm shaft as you have a circlip? when you were inside was there a sliding coupler engage pto instead of a gear as there would be on a ground speed machine?

we do. we run the powerwasher and rotavator on a 21 spline shaft @ 1000 rpm.
i dont know how the ground speed ones work (as on our 565) as never been in there. on 590 there is a sliding gear to engage pto. I assume this is what you mean.
It has a PTO gear that spins on an idler for the two different speeds. its a while now since i did it.

when we went to Shukers for the parts in Oswestry (yes, it was that long ago when we did it) they said a tractor like ours was VERY rare, in fact they didnt know of any others.... the hydraulic pump is the "high output" version, because it runs at a higher speed!

 

[MF-ANDY]

would love to see whats in there as ive never heard of or seen one and the only two options shown in the french and english parts book are single speed ground speed or two speed ipto

 

[Bloders]

would love to see whats in there as ive never heard of or seen one and the only two options shown in the french and english parts book are single speed ground speed or two speed ipto

im fairly sure the workshop manual i have shows it.
ill see if i can find the page in the manual and send it you if i can

 

[MF-ANDY]

great thanks

 

[multi power]

would love to see whats in there as ive never heard of or seen one and the only two options shown in the french and english parts book are single speed ground speed or two speed ipto

In a way I'm not surprised, I remember being told on a factory tour of banner lane that they could build 10,000 tractors and no 2 would be identical