Mid Tier Offers

If everyone told them to stick it, they might have a rethink of the whole thing. Whoever devised theses schemes, did so to keep themselves in jobs, not to benefit wildlife.

One half wonders if they are being difficult and slow on purpose to try and reduce the number of successful applications. Do you think the govt is trying to reduce money spent in this area?
 

DRC

Member
What on earth is going on here?! Obviously these options cannot exist. I hope we don't have to go out and take photos of each option location. That would take me ages.
I was asked for more photos and fertiliser records for every field with a pond being buffered. Six ponds with .65 ha in total of buffering, netting a total of £130.
It was at this point that I said no more, and withdrew my application.
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
If everyone told them to stick it, they might have a rethink of the whole thing. Whoever devised theses schemes, did so to keep themselves in jobs, not to benefit wildlife.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if that is the case.

What I wan't to know is has anyone who is already in Mid Tier been paid anything yet?

It strikes me that if NE cannot keep its side of the bargain (and pay us when they should), why should we?
 

DRC

Member
One half wonders if they are being difficult and slow on purpose to try and reduce the number of successful applications. Do you think the govt is trying to reduce money spent in this area?
My agent says it's two things. One is the computer system is rubbish and can't cope, the other is lack of manpower. When she worked for them, she would go out and asses things like the ponds, in person, make a decision there and then. Now everything has to be done digitally.
 
I was asked for more photos and fertiliser records for every field with a pond being buffered. Six ponds with .65 ha in total of buffering, netting a total of £130.
It was at this point that I said no more, and withdrew my application.

Cripes. Now you're making me nervous. Why did they want fertiliser records?

I was very careful when choosing options to pick ones that had a minimum of admin per £ received. I.e. no claiming for little bits here and there with individual hedgerow trees and the like. That said, if they wanted me to go and photograph every buffer strip location I'd be mightily annoyed.

Does it say for the pond option that you have to provide photographs and fertiliser records, or are they moving the goalposts?
 

S J H

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
I was asked for more photos and fertiliser records for every field with a pond being buffered. Six ponds with .65 ha in total of buffering, netting a total of £130.
It was at this point that I said no more, and withdrew my application.

Have you lost a lot on agents fees @silverfox ?

I wonder if there's any chance of sending them the invoice, because they haven't notified you by the agreed timescale.
 

DRC

Member
Have you lost a lot on agents fees @silverfox ?

I wonder if there's any chance of sending them the invoice, because they haven't notified you by the agreed timescale.
Ha ha, nice thought, but when would that ever get paid. I also think there's a disclaimer that you applied at your own risk. I may not have been accepted.
It's cost me £400, but it's not just the delays that's made me change my mind.
 

DRC

Member
Cripes. Now you're making me nervous. Why did they want fertiliser records?

I was very careful when choosing options to pick ones that had a minimum of admin per £ received. I.e. no claiming for little bits here and there with individual hedgerow trees and the like. That said, if they wanted me to go and photograph every buffer strip location I'd be mightily annoyed.

Does it say for the pond option that you have to provide photographs and fertiliser records, or are they moving the goalposts?
I'd have to check, as left it up to my agent. She said she had a raft of letters last week, all asking for something or other.
I hope it works out for anyone wanting to get an offer.
 

S J H

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
Ha ha, nice thought, but when would that ever get paid. I also think there's a disclaimer that you applied at your own risk. I may not have been accepted.
It's cost me £400, but it's not just the delays that's made me change my mind.

It's a joke (n) reminds me why I've never got on with grants before.

I've got to phone them again tomorrow to see what's happening, apparently there having difficulty because I've never claimed on the parcels previously, it was always claimed on the home farm.

The trouble is, is they did sort out all these organisations, then there would be an awful lot unemployed.
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
I would wonder if it is possible to make a successful application without using an agent?

It is a very complicated thing to do and unless you know an awful lot about all the options, I doubt whether many farmers could either do it themselves or maximise what they can claim on.

I looked at it in 2015 and was appalled by what was being asked for. Then our agent approached us in 2016 and showed us how much NE had had to simplify it to be able to drum up any applications whatsoever.

I think somebody mentioned that they only received less than 3000 by Nov 2016.
I also heard that NE were so disappointing with this that they were likely to bend over backwards to agree as many, if not all of them so as to encourage future applications.

Looks like this has now all fallen out the window, doesn't it?

What annoys me most is that we have left a high proportion of this farm un-planted in the Autumn to plant with Mid Tier options in the Spring. If these delays carry on much longer or our application is turned down, we have missed a fantastic Autumn to have easily established what could have been good crops.

So not only do we not get our Mid Tier income, we lost the chance of getting a decent crop income.
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
It's a joke (n) reminds me why I've never got on with grants before.

I've got to phone them again tomorrow to see what's happening, apparently there having difficulty because I've never claimed on the parcels previously, it was always claimed on the home farm.

The trouble is, is they did sort out all these organisations, then there would be an awful lot unemployed.
The trouble is also that there aren't enough hungry people about.

Which means they have to come up with these poxy schemes to justify that we get some sort of financial support.

When they introduced the original first (5 year) Set aside scheme, rule number one was:
If MAFF (remember them?) wanted you to return the land back to Agriculture (such as in time of War), could you?

All these poxy schemes would disappear in a puff of smoke if people were hungry again!
 

S J H

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
The trouble is also that there aren't enough hungry people about.

Which means they have to come up with these poxy schemes to justify that we get some sort of financial support.

When they introduced the original first (5 year) Set aside scheme, rule number one was:
If MAFF (remember them?) wanted you to return the land back to Agriculture (such as in time of War), could you?

All these poxy schemes would disappear in a puff of smoke if people were hungry again!

I wasn't about that far back. I should have applied for a water capital grant, but i was told to apply for the mid tier.

I try and deal with them in a civil manner, but they're so bloody useless, and they never seem to work a full week.
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
If any of you get a letter asking for AB1, AB8 and AB9 photographic evidence prior to receiving your agreements,
Point this out to them:

NE staff are failing to understand what the scheme rules and requirements actually are.


AB1, AB8 and AB9 do not require photographic evidence at the application stage, which should go without saying, being as the options are not yet established!!!! Just so that you understand the requirements, no photographs of arable options are required at the application stage, but each year a random selection of agreements (and this is not an agreement yet) will be selected by RPA to provide photographic evidence that the option is in place.
 
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If any of you get a letter asking for AB1, AB8 and AB9 photographic evidence prior to receiving your agreements,
Point this out to them them:

NE staff are failing to understand what the scheme rules and requirements actually are.


AB1, AB8 and AB9 do not require photographic evidence at the application stage, which should go without saying, being as the options are not yet established!!!! Just so that you understand the requirements, no photographs of arable options are required at the application stage, but each year a random selection of agreements (and this is not an agreement yet) will be selected by RPA to provide photographic evidence that the option is in place.

That was my understanding

Have just spoken to an advisor (not NE) who said that she thinks that the have pulled staff off doing this year's applications because they are so behind with last year. They are behind with last year because they made a load of full time people redundant and have now brought in new people on temporary contracts who aren't properly trained (hence the bizarre requests that you've had). DEFRA have had budget cuts, so maybe this is what the results of those cuts look like.
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
That was my understanding

Have just spoken to an advisor (not NE) who said that she thinks that the have pulled staff off doing this year's applications because they are so behind with last year. They are behind with last year because they made a load of full time people redundant and have now brought in new people on temporary contracts who aren't properly trained (hence the bizarre requests that you've had). DEFRA have had budget cuts, so maybe this is what the results of those cuts look like.
This is what my agent told me.
They have pulled in a load of people who don't understand the rules and have been sending out letters asking for more information/photos when they are not necessary.

I have just received an email from NE apologising for the letter, which should never have been sent.
They also promise to keep my agent informed weekly as to progress of our application.

I am just wondering how many weeks I should give them?
 
This is what my agent told me.
They have pulled in a load of people who don't understand the rules and have been sending out letters asking for more information/photos when they are not necessary.

I have just received an email from NE apologising for the letter, which should never have been sent.
They also promise to keep my agent informed weekly as to progress of our application.

I am just wondering how many weeks I should give them?

Fortunately, after an slight panic about the starting time for a few options, which I clarified today, we don't really have to start implementing options until after harvest. I am, therefore, reasonably relaxed about it.

Do you think they are more or less likely to send your agreement out quicker if you ring up and pester them?
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
Fortunately, after an slight panic about the starting time for a few options, which I clarified today, we don't really have to start implementing options until after harvest. I am, therefore, reasonably relaxed about it.

Do you think they are more or less likely to send your agreement out quicker if you ring up and pester them?

I don't know,
Neither my neighbour or ourselves have got our 2016 BPS yet. My neighbour was ringing RPA every day. They then told him they would not speak to him anymore because he uses an agent. (We don't for BPS)
But they would speak to his agent.
Our neighbour is one of 2 out of 96 that has been paid.
So phoning every day doesn't work.

Yesterday I received a letter from Natural England asking for photographic evidence of AB1, AB8 and AB9.

This made me very angry because we cannot provide photos of something we haven't yet done, because we haven't got an agreement yet. So I emailed our agent who emailed NE explaining the situation and today I have the response with an apology and a promise of weekly updates as to progress.

Mind you, I did have to threaten NE very hard as to who I was going to send a letter to if they didn't sort it out.
Those threats were sincerely meant and will still be put into action if necessary.

I am wondering now what to do to get the RPA to sort out our BPS claim. Every phone call I make, I am told there is no problem and that our claim is in Validation. The will not tell me when we will get paid. I reckon they have all gone on holiday before the 2017 BPS starts.

How the government have the right to charge interest on late tax payments, then keep us waiting for months for our money, without interest being added I have no idea. Not having our BPS is causing us excessive Bank interest which isn't our fault.

This is all symptomatic of the whole system that provides job creation to reduce unemployment, which then create more problems that cost the tax payer even more money.

Something needs doing about it.
 
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I don't know,
Neither my neighbour or ourselves have got our 2016 BPS yet. My neighbour was ringing RPA every day. They then told him they would not speak to him anymore because he uses an agent. (We don't for BPS)
But they would speak to his agent.
Our neighbour is one of 2 out of 96 that has been paid.
So phoning every day doesn't work.

Yesterday I received a letter from Natural England asking for photographic evidence of AB1, AB8 and AB9.

This made me very angry because we cannot provide photos of something we haven't yet done, because we haven't got an agreement yet. So I emailed our agent who emailed NE explaining the situation and today I have the response with an apology and a promise of weekly updates as to progress.

Mind you, I did have to threaten NE very hard as to who I was going to send a letter to if they didn't sort it out.
Those threats were sincerely meant and will still be put into action if necessary.

I am wondering now what to do to get the RPA to sort out our BPS claim. Every phone call I make, I am told there is no problem and that our claim is in Validation. The will not tell me when we will get paid. I reckon they have all gone on holiday before the 2017 BPS starts.

How the government have the right to charge interest on late tax payments, then keep us waiting for months for our money, without interest being added I have no idea. Not having our BPS is causing us excessive Bank interest which isn't our fault.

This is all symptomatic of the whole system that provides job creation to reduce unemployment, which then create more problems that cost the tax payer even more money.

Something needs doing about it.

That is very unfortunate not to have received your BPS payment yet, although not surprising.

I had submitted a whole load of RLE1 forms. Then, due to receiving conflicting advice from the RPA, had to send a whole load of corrections. Then the RPA changed our maps without telling us (you almost have to login each month to monitor whether or not they have been fiddling around), which prompted lengthy emails. To be fair to them, they have now sorted the mapping issues out. However, due to all the errors with the maps, I thought we'd be one of the last to be paid. As it was we were very surprised to receive ours pretty swiftly. Must be that Christmas hamper I send to them each year.
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
Fortunately, after an slight panic about the starting time for a few options, which I clarified today, we don't really have to start implementing options until after harvest. I am, therefore, reasonably relaxed about it.
Do you think they are more or less likely to send your agreement out quicker if you ring up and pester them?
I can't be so relaxed about it because we have some options that require planting this Spring and cannot be delayed till after harvest.

Defra will shortly be sending out 2017 application packs. Without knowing one way or another whether we have an agreement, I cannot complete the BPS claim form.

We have land that we have ploughed ahead of various planting options and other land we have not. If we are turned down I might not have enough EFA for the cash crops we are growing. I would have to use the ploughed land to put a legume in and leave the rest un-ploughed as fallow. Thank God I haven't ploughed it all. But if this land is going into a Mid Tier scheme, it should have been ploughed before Christmas.

But something in my head told me not to do it!
 

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