Milk Price Tracker

[Sid]

Some investment would obviously be needed if the national production profile were to change for sure.

Remind me what happened to Westbury again.

 

[betweenthelines]

Bit hypocritical to laud "

That was my point, the ethos of organic farming is certainly not about importing soya from anywhere in the world, unfortunately buying from India or China is only adding to global demand which in turn means more is grown in the tropics.

If I was buying organic milk at a premium I certainly would not expect soya to be fed to the cows producing it.

This is confusing me. Consumers buying "organic" do so in part because it's supposed to be better for the planet, but "organic" farms produce less food meaning more land has to be farmed?

If everyone went back back to "dog & stick" farming to reduce inputs such as imported proteins, millions more acres would have to be farmed worldwide in order to maintain current levels of food production.

 

[Sid]

Bit hypocritical to laud "


This is confusing me. Consumers buying "organic" do so in part because it's supposed to be better for the planet, but "organic" farms produce less food meaning more land has to be farmed?

If everyone went back back to "dog & stick" farming to reduce inputs such as imported proteins, millions more acres would have to be farmed worldwide in order to maintain current levels of food production.

Carbon footprint here has been significantly lower than industry standard.
So has CIA usage
So has total AB usage.

Look at the bigger picture.
Guess your reply is based on some sort of evidence?
Can you source that. As well as the environmental costs of pesticides and fertiliser clean up in water.

Of course given the rise in cost of fertiliser and your need to "feed the world" don't skimp. Make sure your conscience is clear and provide affordable cheap food for the masses.

 

[frederick]

Carbon footprint here has been significantly lower than industry standard.
So has CIA usage
So has total AB usage.

Look at the bigger picture.
Guess your reply is based on some sort of evidence?
Can you source that. As well as the environmental costs of pesticides and fertiliser clean up in water.

Of course given the rise in cost of fertiliser and your need to "feed the world" don't skimp. Make sure your conscience is clear and provide affordable cheap food for the masses.

But that is your farm not organic in general. Don't know that it is still the same but I could have taken you to an organic farm 18months ago that was in our vets practice in the highest 25% of antibiotic use of the conventional farms.

My current understanding is also that organic farms in general are not showing lower carbon footprints then the conventional it is far more about the farms efficiency.

I think the original post was really saying that when somebody reads organic on a bottle they immediately make there own assumptions about what that means to them and many times this assumptions are not backed up by reality.

The assumption from the consumer understandably would be that the milk is produced on small family farms where the cows have a wonderful life and everything is grown on the farm.
The fact that soya is imported from India under questionable certification at nearly 3times the price of conventional because getting high enough protein levels into organic cows using home grown ingredients can be tricky would be an unpleasant surprise to 95% of consumers.

 

[Sid]

But that is your farm not organic in general. Don't know that it is still the same but I could have taken you to an organic farm 18months ago that was in our vets practice in the highest 25% of antibiotic use of the conventional farms.

My current understanding is also that organic farms in general are not showing lower carbon footprints then the conventional it is far more about the farms efficiency.

I think the original post was really saying that when somebody reads organic on a bottle they immediately make there own assumptions about what that means to them and many times this assumptions are not backed up by reality.

The assumption from the consumer understandably would be that the milk is produced on small family farms where the cows have a wonderful life and everything is grown on the farm.
The fact that soya is imported from India under questionable certification at nearly 3times the price of conventional because getting high enough protein levels into organic cows using home grown ingredients can be tricky would be an unpleasant surprise to 95% of consumers.

You have made assumptions of an organic consumer and organic.
Imported proteins make up such a small amount of an organic cows diet if any at all. All the organic rules and standards are avaliable online and various organisations are there to educated and inform.

Would a consumer think that conventional cows would never eat a blade of fresh grass, never have the sun on their backs and run the equivalent of a marathon every day. Of course this cow was imported halfway across the EU, that dairy farmers voted to leave, been fed food waste and a diet so acidic that they have to be fed antacids every day of its life.

We have all been guilty of hiding all these things from consumers for various reasons.

I have seen dairy animals "grazing" in the last year that didn't have anywhere dry to lie, but it's OK it's "free range"

 

[kiwi pom]

Totally agree regarding shipping, especially with the amount or cargo one of those monster ships carries.

The real issue is that we’re trying to make cows milk in the winter is it not? Surely we only need enough to drink fresh and all the cheese and butter production should maybe be switched over to being produced in season when we have a brilliant protien source that grows really well in our climate? Of course no dairy in there right mind will agree with that as it means having stainless steel sitting redundant over winter.

Sounds like the Kiwi system, not sure it would work in the UK as it requires grazing in the summer an not everyone wants to do that. Permanently housed herds don't care what time of year it is.

I don't see why processors couldn't shut down plants for part of the year though, happens here all the time and seems to work.

 

[lazy farmer]

You have made assumptions of an organic consumer and organic.
Imported proteins make up such a small amount of an organic cows diet if any at all. All the organic rules and standards are avaliable online and various organisations are there to educated and inform.

Would a consumer think that conventional cows would never eat a blade of fresh grass, never have the sun on their backs and run the equivalent of a marathon every day. Of course this cow was imported halfway across the EU, that dairy farmers voted to leave, been fed food waste and a diet so acidic that they have to be fed antacids every day of its life.

We have all been guilty of hiding all these things from consumers for various reasons.

I have seen dairy animals "grazing" in the last year that didn't have anywhere dry to lie, but it's OK it's "free range"

Well apparently there are people prepared to pay a £1080 for a ton of the stuff on here.
your holier than thou attitude rally doesn’t cut the mustard. And I think your AB USP won’t be lasting too much longer either the way some of us conventionals are making progress in that area.

 

[frederick]

You have made assumptions of an organic consumer and organic.
Imported proteins make up such a small amount of an organic cows diet if any at all. All the organic rules and standards are avaliable online and various organisations are there to educated and inform.

Would a consumer think that conventional cows would never eat a blade of fresh grass, never have the sun on their backs and run the equivalent of a marathon every day. Of course this cow was imported halfway across the EU, that dairy farmers voted to leave, been fed food waste and a diet so acidic that they have to be fed antacids every day of its life.

We have all been guilty of hiding all these things from consumers for various reasons.

I have seen dairy animals "grazing" in the last year that didn't have anywhere dry to lie, but it's OK it's "free range"

I am not knocking organic it is meeting a customer demand and arla have great hope for its growth potential.

And your right the standards are available but a tiny minority of consumers would bother reading them and the majority of their understanding is assumptions rather than fact.

It is a fact though stated on here that an organic dairy farmer has paid over £1000 a ton for soya.

Conventional Also has it's issues but the average buyer of organic milk believes all conventional milk is produced by cows that are never let out filled with antibiotics and hormones, responsible for the deforestation of Brazil and have a far worse carbon footprint than organic.

Organics biggest risk is if the consumer was well educated the gap between the two is far smaller than they assume.

 

[Sid]

Well apparently there are people prepared to pay a £1080 for a ton of the stuff on here.
your holier than thou attitude rally doesn’t cut the mustard. And I think your AB USP won’t be lasting too much longer either the way some of us conventionals are making progress in that area.

And there lies the key point. Some.

Regenerative dairy farming. The facts is you had all been conned by marketing the fact you needed ABs so badly.

I am not knocking organic it is meeting a customer demand and arla have great hope for its growth potential

Interesting the fact that a large proportion of the UK organic milk is now produced without the need for ABs for a specific market what are the othe milk buyers AB usage rates?

 

[lazy farmer]

And there lies the key point. Some.

Regenerative dairy farming. The facts is you had all been conned by marketing the fact you needed ABs so badly.



Interesting the fact that a large proportion of the UK organic milk is now produced without the need for ABs for a specific market what are the othe milk buyers AB usage rates?

Out of genuine curiousity how many cows have you had to sell due to antibiotic treatments ?

 

[lazy farmer]

and what are Omscos cell count limits?

 

[Sid]

Out of genuine curiousity how many cows have you had to sell due to antibiotic treatments ?

Sell as a milking cow none.

Barrened out after x number of lactations of feeding calves when their productive life has come to an end, maybe 6 in 10 years.

 

[Martyn]

and what are Omscos cell count limits?

250.
Whole omsco pool average 188 on data sheet.

 

[Sid]

and what are Omscos cell count limits?

Same as everyone else's. 400k

 

[lazy farmer]

250.
Whole omsco pool average 188 on data sheet.

Sorry is it 250 or 400 ?

 

[Sid]

250.
Whole omsco pool average 188 on data sheet.

Limits he asked not average.

Legal FSA limit is 400

 

[lazy farmer]

Legal FSA limit is 400

I meant bonus/penalty bands

 

[Martyn]

Thank yiu

I personally believe there should be no different in Scc average across any sector, we have always operated below 200 for any milk buyer over the years.

 

[Sid]

I meant bonus/penalty bands

Bonus under 275 penalty over.

 

[frederick]

And there lies the key point. Some.

Regenerative dairy farming. The facts is you had all been conned by marketing the fact you needed ABs so badly.



Interesting the fact that a large proportion of the UK organic milk is now produced without the need for ABs for a specific market what are the othe milk buyers AB usage rates?

Interesting that you are again arguing why organic is better with a market that istosatisfy American consumers and has minimal relevance to the UK.

At no point have I knocked organic I was just trying to create a debate about how consumer perception is different between organic and conventional milk. And the big risk for organic is not living up to that perceptions and the failing for a lot of conventional milk is to allow that myth to persist.