mob stocking

[martian]

Ok, who's planning to use it this year and what moving regime do we reckon is optimum for UK conditions? I went for daily moves last year and I don't think I had a high enough impact, am wondering about twice daily. Mob of 60 cows and autumn calves...

 

[dontknowanything]

Not going to be doing a lot here this year, next year though will hopefully be a different matter

 

[martian]

What's happened?

 

[dontknowanything]

Nothing dramatic.

Got two 4ha fields that can't be mob grazed, 22ha of cover crop that will be strip grazed, and 3ha that will be mob grazed. But having done my grazing plan, I will not get onto the mob grazing field until the end of the year, and only for one or two rotations.

Next year I will hopefully have 18ha of three year grass ley, which will be mob grazed.

 

[dontknowanything]

Question for you martian.

What are your thoughts on building up a seed (weed) bank whilst mob grazing on a temporary ley in an arable rotation? Not such a problem under conventional grazing as you'd be getting the topper out and not many seed heads would be forming.

It's the thing I'm most worried about, and what is holding me back from pushing the button immediately.

 

[martian]

What's the composition of your ley? We've got some lovely clean wheat this year, cut into two year mown ryegrass stubble. There were hell and all seeds on the surface as it seeded both years (as the buyers wanted mature haylage), a lot chitted and were killed by chemical (can't remember which now, but very effective, got a miss which is a bit messy). A three year mob-grazed ley would have much more soil bug and worm activity which would gobble up a lot of the seeds. Give it a go and report back! We have had some ryegrass which came up in last years wheat, it is still there as a cover-crop where the Pedders mix went in a bit late and didn't get going, so I'm happy that it's scavenging N and forming underground root mass...

 

[dontknowanything]

Lots of stuff, but based on rye & fescue. Agronomist says fescue will be the biggest problem in following crops.

 

[BSH]

I am going to be doing daily moves but moving the back fence every three days or so. I was inspired by Rob Richmond's experience of grazing dairy cattle on one day moves and the amount of carbon he was building in his soils. He didnt have the trampling that is discussed in the US mob grazing articles and yet was achieving great things. I think in our climate that the trampling is less important and that because we have a more humid climate we can graze more often. As we graze more often we got more opportunity for the roots to die back and contribute to the SOM and above ground grows quick enough to protect the soil.

 

[martian]

This system might also suit dka's situation by not allowing his fescues etc to set seed. I heard Doug Peterson talking about his system in Missouri last week and he also doesn't backfence everyday which makes water provision etc much easier. He goes for pretty high density grazing so that the ground is covered in muck etc; when they move they don't want to go back to the previously grazed bit except to cross it in search of water. Unless you've not hit it hard enough...

 

[BSH]

That seemed to be my experience last year, that they dont go back on the grazed area.

 

[dontknowanything]

I would agree that they very rarely go back on the grazed area, be it on pasture or a cover crop.

I don't think I could keep the grass from setting seed without use of a topper, there's just too much of it for my number of cows. I am very, very against using a topper as it seems ludicrous when raising animals that eat grass!

You may live in a humid climate BSH, but it isn't around here, in 24 years out of 25! I am looking for deep roots and large leaf areas.

 

[BSH]

DKA, I hear what you are saying re dry area, but even so I think even in your neck of the woods you would get 4 grazings with the right deep rooting species? This is different to some of the discussions in the US where they graze an area only twice.

 

[dontknowanything]

Twice in a year? Yes, I am certain I would get more than that, probably 3 or 4 like you say.

But...

That's assuming I get round it all. If I am understocked then some might go to seed.

Suppose I will have to suck it and see.

 

[BSH]

From the way I understand it, the spring surplus should be cut and baled ( or clamped ) and then the regrowth subsequently grazed. I think traditionally the cut area was shut up for winter grazing/foggage with possibly the conserved grass fed as well or maybe not.The area was not touched until Nov/dec having been cut in june. If the conserved grass can find its way back to the field as dung later then should be ok. Probably ok even if it cant. I think in your situation that is how I would try to manage it. Given that you are more reliably dry than other parts you could make hay that would store well for your future requirements as the herd grows or give you the opportunity to sell it?

 

[dontknowanything]

Not very keen on making hay for two reasons

1) I'm looking to build C, this seems to be rather contrary to that aim

2) Scared of making too much hay then not having enough grazing! Would probably prefer to graze the hay in the field rather than spending money making it, then eating it later on.

 

[martian]

I'm with dka on this point, we cut some silage off some tired meadows last year and then mob grazed the aftermaths. There wasn't really enough regrowth to stock it heavy enough to get the animal impact we wanted and ended up only grazing it once in the autumn. This year I'm planning to let it get tall before hitting it with the cattle and then I should get much better regrowth for subsequent grazing. Unlikely to get these meadows into arable rotation (under current rules) so not too worried about seed drop etc, but they are full of thin grasses so it'll be interesting to see if the grazing improves over the years...

 

[BSH]

Well my experience was that grazed long grass didnt have any quicker return than grass utilised at an earlier growth stage. The longer covers helped reduce poaching, but didnt improve regrowth. Perhaps I'll see the benefit this year? You wont be reducing C if the dung goes back to the same field from the hay but obviously will if it is sold off the farm. I think if you havent got enough stock for the area and you dont want it to go to seed your only options are either more stock or cutting (be that topping or cutting for hay/silage)? I think some of the folk in the US and some here bale the excess grass and then leave the bales in the field to be grazed as the foggage is grazed. I think this works better in the N of the USA /Canada where frost prevents the damage the sward that we get here. I dont think you should write off topping if it meets your goal of not letting the grass go to seed.

 

[dontknowanything]

Well I m a fully paid up member of the more leaves = faster growth club. I've seen it in my garden when I mow a longer bit of grass next door to a shorter bit - the longer grows back much quicker.

I think I'll have to go for it and make it up as I go along. I'm going to need the extra grazing regardless - unless the dreaded SBV hits me... :shock:

 

[BSH]

Sorry, I misunderstood you. I agree that more leaf gives more growth. I was trying to describe where longer grass swards had been trampled that the longer crushed material had mulched the ground having died and checked regrowth of material. I dont think I will see the benefit of this green manuring as it were until this year? Where grass had undamaged leaves and was long ish it regrew quickly as you describe. In general though when I got the densities better ballanced later in the season such that I got the trampling effect I was after, I found the grass was either well eaten or trampled and I wasnt leaving a lot of leaf. When I had it ,to my mind,less well ballanced I got grass that was neither grazed hard or properly trampled that the cattle wouldnt eat because it had been 'contaminated' in the wet by their walking through it and they then didnt touch it. I think my experience suggests that it is the root reserves that effect the regrowth more than remaining leaf? By allowing the grass to get to a more mature stage before grazing the root reserves were stronger so it got away quicker compared to shorter returns I used to do.

 

[dontknowanything]

I'm sure some people (Clive!) were inspired by The Ruminant's talk and will shortly be getting some cows...?

It's a shame that the mob grazing thread from BFF has been lost, it was very interesting.

Last year The Ruminant was "falling off every corner" (his words), by going to 100 day recovery periods. It would be very interesting to hear how that went, and what you are planning on doing this year. Back down to 60-70 days, or was 100 worthwhile?

Yesterday I had a walk round the field that I mob grazed. Apart from the fact that some bits have obviously been overgrazed, which I knew, I did find one very interesting, and encouraging result. A year ago I did the same walk and found that all the cow pats were still largely intact, looking like they were only a few weeks old. This year they all (the ones that are still visible anyway) have been really broken down. I'm not sure what has done it, maybe worms, but they look like they have exploded, and are well on the way to becoming soil.

Very good news, and a quick benefit.