mob stocking

[RushesToo]

Old MF spring tine cultivator 2 inches deep followed by power harrow combination with the coulters off the ground. I regret using the tine drag, as it sat like porridge through the wet winter. We were trying to level the field out a bit. I went straight into a stubble with the combination the year before, but it was softer ground. That time I still managed to shake the seed metering unit apart, opening it up and running out of seed. As with my arable establishment I find a 2 inch cultivation leaves a 2 inch pan with wet clarts on top. At least there's a bottom for the hoof to sink to, even if it churns up the top. Broadcast and roll, or spring tine drill next time. Or how about my Horsch CO scratching the top with the seed blowing out the back? 10 inch rows might not look pretty. Thoughts?

Is that pan persistant? Others have tried chickory and raddish to break through - depends on ground and weather as to if it is worthwhile. Pans are bad and need to be got rid of - just what will work where you are.

 

[ChrisStep]

I'm hoping the red clover roots will do a similar job. To be fair, it's not a hard pan as it's been direct drilled for about 8 years, and until last week had plenty of deep cracks in it. Once the grass gets going again and I overseed the worst of it, I'm hoping it'll grow through it.

 

[martian]

For interest...this field was under sown with herbal Ley last year, under spring oats which didn't do that well. In fact I think we chopped the straw as thought it wasn't worth baling. Left the herbs to grow over winter and lightly grazed them about seven weeks ago. We gave the oats some N pre drilling, otherwise no inputs since. Chicory was over 7 foot in places and cattle loved it

 

[martian]

This mob had been on herbal leys for nearly three weeks, I moved them back to permanent pasture this morning. If they are not actually disgruntled, they are some way short of being gruntled.

However, one very interesting thing I've noticed is one of the cull cows who I stuck in this mob (as the bulls have gone in with the cows and calves now) who looked like she was fading away, I think with Johnnes, has fleshed up and has a real sparkle in her eyes. I'd kept her on as she is still milking away and her calf needs the nourishment. Newman Turner (who was one of the original promoters of herbal leys) maintained that he could take TB and Johnnes infected cows from other farms and graze them on his leys and with that, heal the cows. I had thought he was perhaps exaggerating a bit, now I'm not so sure. It's another example of health being a positive condition, not merely the absence of disease.

Another point of interest is the land under the wood in the LHS of the photo above...we had an acre or two of OSR there last year (the only bit on the farm we managed to take through to harvest and we only bothered with this as we wanted the seed for planting last autumn). We thought we'd sowed this with a herbal mix post harvest, but it appears to be nearly all ryegrass. It suffered with the dry, unlike the ryegrass (and other grasses) in the herbal mix. The cattle have nipped off the seedheads and left it at that. Now, we've missed most of the rain which has been dousing various parts of the country last week, but the leys keep growing; this is surely what Christine Jones refers to when she says communities of plants always do better than monocultures, especially when stressed by lack of moisture or whatever.

 

[The Ruminant]

This mob had been on herbal leys for nearly three weeks, I moved them back to permanent pasture this morning. If they are not actually disgruntled, they are some way short of being gruntled.

However, one very interesting thing I've noticed is one of the cull cows who I stuck in this mob (as the bulls have gone in with the cows and calves now) who looked like she was fading away, I think with Johnnes, has fleshed up and has a real sparkle in her eyes. I'd kept her on as she is still milking away and her calf needs the nourishment. Newman Turner (who was one of the original promoters of herbal leys) maintained that he could take TB and Johnnes infected cows from other farms and graze them on his leys and with that, heal the cows. I had thought he was perhaps exaggerating a bit, now I'm not so sure. It's another example of health being a positive condition, not merely the absence of disease.

Another point of interest is the land under the wood in the LHS of the photo above...we had an acre or two of OSR there last year (the only bit on the farm we managed to take through to harvest and we only bothered with this as we wanted the seed for planting last autumn). We thought we'd sowed this with a herbal mix post harvest, but it appears to be nearly all ryegrass. It suffered with the dry, unlike the ryegrass (and other grasses) in the herbal mix. The cattle have nipped off the seedheads and left it at that. Now, we've missed most of the rain which has been dousing various parts of the country last week, but the leys keep growing; this is surely what Christine Jones refers to when she says communities of plants always do better than monocultures, especially when stressed by lack of moisture or whatever.

Really interesting stuff, thanks. Farming is all about observation isn’t it. “The farmer’s eye fattens the beast”, as they say

 

[The Ruminant]

Warning, virgin podcaster alert

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ahdb/id1324104670?i=1000480102675

 

[The Ruminant]

Warning, virgin podcaster alert

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ahdb/id1324104670?i=1000480102675

(It’s me, by the way )

 

[martian]

(It’s me, by the way )

Thought it was Lemmy from Motorhead!

 

[Ffermer Bach]

(It’s me, by the way )

just listened, really great talk, such a lot to learn

 

[ShooTa]

enjoyed it

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I have just read through this entire thread!! Some brilliant info here, thanks all who have posted so far!

One question which keeps coming to mind, from what I have seen people are either grazing cows or sheep, can the two be done together?

Yes

 

[ImLost]

View attachment 891605Yes

Would you say it's more beneficial running the 2 together? Making full use of different length grasses? Would you get more lu/ha?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Would you say it's more beneficial running the 2 together? Making full use of different length grasses? Would you get more lu/ha?

Yes, really any mob consolidation is beneficial because you make your farm bigger each time you empty a field!
Definitely they benefit each other, the downside is in winter when the pinch comes on, as you can't expect cattle to stand behind one low wire and thus need to run an extra wire. (bearing in mind most people need 3 wires just to hold their sheep).

But, some benefits include the parasite pressure is less (cow worms don't worry sheep, and vice versa), reduced fly pressure, higher stock density with less pressure on either class of stock.
We're pretty much back to simple rotational grazing with the flerd now, as it's the equivalent of the northern hemisphere 2nd of January today. Daily moves for them, feeding out the odd bit of hay to help feed the soil, and very short grass.
Heifers are still feeding their calves and it's about time to scan the hoggets.

We do run two mobs - we have a straight cattle mob on high density and a flerd on low density, keeps us out of trouble as the high density mob are on several shifts a day.

 

[Samcowman]

Warning, virgin podcaster alert

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ahdb/id1324104670?i=1000480102675

Listened today big fan of listening to podcasts whilst shifting cows and building fences. Well spoken as well and you got the main points across. You will be on working cows podcast next. ????????????????

 

[Bowland Bob]

I to have caught up on all of this thread. I'm really keen to try mob grazing. We have luing cattle and was wondering if anyone else on thread has tried mob grazing on upland ground, low pH, rushy pasture?

 

[Woolless]

Thought it was Lemmy from Motorhead!

Well I hope @The Ruminant didn't warm up for his 'gig' with a couple of lines of speed and copious Jack Daniels and coke, as dear departed Mr. Kilmister would have done! Looking forward to listening to that.

Just read through this whole thread over the past few days as part of my research for my own mob/regenerative/holistic grazing experiment starting next spring and I've really enjoyed it. Thanks to all contributors.

@Poorbuthappy your comment a couple of pages back regarding grass growth and speed of moves is important. However, if I move the mob quickly at peak grass growth (or higher covers?) then they need a larger area each day, so more selective grazing and less trampling. To me, this highlights the benefit of a variable demand/stocking rate to match grass growth. I've read a couple of Jim Gerrish's books and he is particularly strong on this point.

My medium-term plan is for my cows to calve May/June and to sell calves as stores the following July, which should go a long way towards evening things out. Next year, the heifers I have so far are due to calve February/March, so demand likely to be greater later on when calves are bigger. I can see me starting off rotationally grazing fairly conventionally and going more 'mob' as the season progresses.

@Bowland Bob I think adopting this type of approach will help your soil and bottom line, no matter what type of land you farm.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Well I hope @The Ruminant didn't warm up for his 'gig' with a couple of lines of speed and copious Jack Daniels and coke, as dear departed Mr. Kilmister would have done! Looking forward to listening to that.

Just read through this whole thread over the past few days as part of my research for my own mob/regenerative/holistic grazing experiment starting next spring and I've really enjoyed it. Thanks to all contributors.

@Poorbuthappy your comment a couple of pages back regarding grass growth and speed of moves is important. However, if I move the mob quickly at peak grass growth (or higher covers?) then they need a larger area each day, so more selective grazing and less trampling. To me, this highlights the benefit of a variable demand/stocking rate to match grass growth. I've read a couple of Jim Gerrish's books and he is particularly strong on this point.

My medium-term plan is for my cows to calve May/June and to sell calves as stores the following July, which should go a long way towards evening things out. Next year, the heifers I have so far are due to calve February/March, so demand likely to be greater later on when calves are bigger. I can see me starting off rotationally grazing fairly conventionally and going more 'mob' as the season progresses.

@Bowland Bob I think adopting this type of approach will help your soil and bottom line, no matter what type of land you farm.

It's @The Ruminant 's thread on the old BFF many years ago on mob stocking that sparked my interest in the regenerative thing, though I didn't know it as that then.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I to have caught up on all of this thread. I'm really keen to try mob grazing. We have luing cattle and was wondering if anyone else on thread has tried mob grazing on upland ground, low pH, rushy pasture?

Yes, the principles work anywhere, you just adapt the limits to suit yourself and your situation:/ time availability/ infrastructure

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I to have caught up on all of this thread. I'm really keen to try mob grazing. We have luing cattle and was wondering if anyone else on thread has tried mob grazing on upland ground, low pH, rushy pasture?

A lot of the mob stocking mixtures and based on Legumes so dont take kindly to acid soil

 

[Kiwi Pete]

A great reason not to buy things you don't need