Monbiot's TV show.....Apocalypse Cow: How Meat Killed the Planet

[Treg]

So if we destroy one, we destroy the other?

Yes.
The UN are saying we have less than 60 harvests of top soil left, it's not livestock farms that are depleting the soils.

 

[Treg]

I think @Wellytrack s images that he posted earlier should be emailed to all the local TV news stations, it's a really simple message & the majority of people will look at it and clearly see the difference with out any thing needing to be said.

 

[Nearly]

I'll hold him you hit him

tell you what...we'll take turns

You could be waiting a while between turns.

 

[Two Tone]

Yes.
The UN are saying we have less than 60 harvests of top soil left, it's not livestock farms that are depleting the soils.

Oh Yes, is that the same UN that in 1974 said that we only had 25 years of Oil left?
Plunging the entire globe into a massive recession and hyperinflation?

 

[Sid]

Oh Yes, is that the same UN that in 1974 said that we only had 25 years of Oil left?
Plunging the entire globe into a massive recession and hyperinflation?

Someone once said that we will never run out of oil, and he's right.
When it gets in short supply it will just get too expensive for us to use as we do now. As the price rises exploration to harder to reach reserves become more cost effective to get to.

 

[sjt01]

Cows are amazing, the bacteria in their stomachs are the same bacteria needed for a healthy soil.
It's like...

They've been designed to work together

Not quite - in a cow's gut they are anaerobic species, in soil you hope they are mainly aerobic, unless your soil is totally compacted or waterlogged

 

[Henarar]

Cows are amazing, the bacteria in their stomachs are the same bacteria needed for a healthy soil.
It's like...

They've been designed to work together

That is the most sensible thing anyone has said on this forum so far

 

[egbert]

True, but it is a very compelling case that carbon can be taken from the air as CO2, via plants photosynthesising, and exuding sugars from their roots to feed soil organisms that put the carbon in the soil as humus.
Simple, effective, cheap and something that we have rather overlooked in modern agriculture.

And this is exactly what we've got to think through....and stop making stupid claims.
It is good to prmote responsible soil management, but.........
The capacity in soil to hold carbon is pretty limited.

In conditions where it grew and grew in the form of organic material, it becomes hugely unstable.
And it just doesn't happen in most conditions...and in 100 years, there won't be much more carbon in that soil than in 50. In 200 years...no more.

All the while we're releasing carbon from coal and oil that's 300 million years old....every single time you start the tractor/flick the switch etc.

It's unrealistic to promote, and will get torn apart by Monbiot et al.

 

[egbert]

You could be waiting a while between turns.

oh but it would such a good feeling when it was finally your turn!
(anyway, I've decided to split shifts, and bring in Chris Packveg too.)

 

[The Agrarian]

I actually wonder how many people take any notice of all this “what you should eat propaganda “. We had it all years ago with butter, salt and numerous other things, to be told later that the information was wrong.

Yes, it seriously affected butter consumption, and gave space for competitor products that would otherwise have never existed. Took them forty years to turn the lie around. Salt, by the way, is still never going to be good for your arteries.

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It was the cows wot done it....

Pity though that half the towers there are only releasing steam.

 

[Barleycorn]

So if we ban cows, what are these idiots going to put on their breakfast muesli and in their fancy latte coffees?
Not to mention the creme fraiche used on their fine dining luncheons and dinners!
And are we going to shoot at birth all the bull calves that the cows produce too?

Fresh milk - probably responsible for the dramatic drop in child mortality in the last century.
Butter
Cheese
Yogurt - a health and fitness standard food.
Beef
Leather - for their fancy car seats, expensive shoes, wallets and hand bags. The alternative is......Plastic made from oil!
Standard Roadside restaurants are all now McDonalds and Burger King.

Nobody seems to mention sheep, which are also ruminants.
Wool - carpets as well as clothes.
Lamb - probably the go-to meat for most Muslims! They don’t eat pork, do they.
Cheese (Feta for their fancy salads).

It’s not just Beef is it?
Oh yes, all these do-gooders would happily go without all of the above wouldn’t they?

How about somebody follows Mr Monbiot about and see which of the above he goes without?
Then hit him with a blackthorn cudgel for being such a hypocrite!

Monbot got destroyed by Piers Morgan on his show when started shouting his vegan drivel, Morgan asked him why he had leather shoes and watchstrap!!

 

[renewablejohn]

And this is exactly what we've got to think through....and stop making stupid claims.
It is good to prmote responsible soil management, but.........
The capacity in soil to hold carbon is pretty limited.

In conditions where it grew and grew in the form of organic material, it becomes hugely unstable.
And it just doesn't happen in most conditions...and in 100 years, there won't be much more carbon in that soil than in 50. In 200 years...no more.

All the while we're releasing carbon from coal and oil that's 300 million years old....every single time you start the tractor/flick the switch etc.

It's unrealistic to promote, and will get torn apart by Monbiot et al.

Really. I find the capacity of soil to hold carbon is limitless . Starting with my grotty grade 4 land I quite enjoy turning it into grade 1 land by stuffing it full of carbon derived from plants.

 

[farmerm]

the constant drip drip drip anti meat campaign will sadly change the thinking of more and more people. Its brainwashing.

Channel 4 have another anti-meat show coming up where families will have a pig or larmb or chicken as a pet for a few months and then have to either choose to eat it or turn vegan!!!

Channel 4 commissions Meat the Family (w/t) | Channel 4

A series that asks how much do we really know about the animals we put on our plates?

www.channel4.com

 

[farmerm]

Really. I find the capacity of soil to hold carbon is limitless . Starting with my grotty grade 4 land I quite enjoy turning it into grade 1 land by stuffing it full of carbon derived from plants.

what has been your method to do so, I will put my hands up and admit I reckon our land is going the opposite way...

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

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It was the cows wot done it....

This is excellent and I get the sentiment totally . Dare I say ,if some of the pictures where swapped for perhaps traffic grid lock or aeroplanes, and the cattle shown in a greener , lusher environment, this would get a message across to a wider audience better than many paragraphs of writing.

 

[2tractors]

So if we ban cows, what are these idiots going to put on their breakfast muesli and in their fancy latte coffees?
Not to mention the creme fraiche used on their fine dining luncheons and dinners!
And are we going to shoot at birth all the bull calves that the cows produce too?

Fresh milk - probably responsible for the dramatic drop in child mortality in the last century.
Butter
Cheese
Yogurt - a health and fitness standard food.
Beef

I am going to take a different tack on this- as someone who has just been diagnosed with pre- diabetes (luckily only just above normal) I have carried out a lot of research into how to reduce blood sugars through diet. Its clear to me that reducing carbohydrates and sugar works for many people in reducing blood sugars and weight at the same time. Over the last 3 months I have lost 9 kgs (not overweight before at 86 kgs and over 6' tall) by eating more meat, fish, eggs, cheese and cream. I have removed most of my bread intake, reduced potatoes and below ground vegetables and all added sugars (no fizzy drinks or cake).

The biggest health issue in the UK (and the developed world) is obesity and diabetes which brings me to my point how can this be addressed if we discourage people eating basic ingredients like meat and dairy products ? As always this debate is becoming very binary without looking beyond one the initial problem that needs fixing.

If you have 30 minutes this is a very compelling argument for continuing to eat meat ,

 

[Tha Ulsterscot]

I think part of the problem we see now is that it's the educated people peddling these lies, and the recently educated and currently being educated that are being indoctrinated.
Just because someone has a university education, and therefore classed as well educated, it doesn't mean that they're intelligent.

(That's a lot of 'educations' in two short sentences!)

Ah but a University degree does not require any COMMON SENSE.

 

[egbert]

Really. I find the capacity of soil to hold carbon is limitless . Starting with my grotty grade 4 land I quite enjoy turning it into grade 1 land by stuffing it full of carbon derived from plants.

John, near to me, there is 20' deep peat, where sphagnum has done exactly what the carbon grabbers want. and trust me, 20' deep peat is unbelievably fragile. and it's only the very particular circumstances on the site which have allowed it to accrue over 10000 years, and then sit there (it's still accruing)

Good soil management is undoubtedly a good way to grab carbon...for a certain time. But show me how you can build it forever. show me where it's possible, cos I don't seem to be able to find evidence, or see where it's realistic. And to make any meaningful difference, we'd need to be replicating that peatland example, and somehow protect the grabbed carbon for....well, forever.

When your soil is 2-3' (never mind 20') above the current level, how will farming it work?
In the wet tractors/bullocks would sink straight through, in the dry it'll take a good thatch to stop it blowing.

There is a world of difference between grabbing a few tens of tonnes per hectare, and what we need to do.
Good soil management is something we need to do for simple housekeeping reasons, but don't confuse that we recapturing the carbon cat we've let outta the bag.

 

[Pilatus]

I think part of the problem we see now is that it's the educated people peddling these lies, and the recently educated and currently being educated that are being indoctrinated.
Just because someone has a university education, and therefore classed as well educated, it doesn't mean that they're intelligent.

(That's a lot of 'educations' in two short sentences!)

I akways say brains and common sense do not go hand in hand.
I expect many successful business people that started with nothing ,do not have a university degree but they do have common sense and f..k you attitude.

 

[DaveGrohl]

I am going to take a different tack on this- as someone who has just been diagnosed with pre- diabetes (luckily only just above normal) I have carried out a lot of research into how to reduce blood sugars through diet. Its clear to me that reducing carbohydrates and sugar works for many people in reducing blood sugars and weight at the same time. Over the last 3 months I have lost 9 kgs (not overweight before at 86 kgs and over 6' tall) by eating more meat, fish, eggs, cheese and cream. I have removed most of my bread intake, reduced potatoes and below ground vegetables and all added sugars (no fizzy drinks or cake).

The biggest health issue in the UK (and the developed world) is obesity and diabetes which brings me to my point how can this be addressed if we discourage people eating basic ingredients like meat and dairy products ? As always this debate is becoming very binary without looking beyond one the initial problem that needs fixing.

If you have 30 minutes this is a very compelling argument for continuing to eat meat ,

I haven't had time to listen to the video yet but am reassured that you've managed to improve your outcomes by eating what I would term "properly". One of the sad things about modern living is the constant drip drip of "experts" trying to reinvent a wheel that there was nothing wrong with in the first place. The whole fat-is-bad-for-you idea has thankfully been shown up for the crock that it is. Sadly there are still huge numbers of people (inc some in the medical profession) who still believe the message from the 70s. Thank you for sharing your experience. Eventually the message will get through. All this vegan guff will run its course with some of the more gullible members of society once they realise their health is suffering and their wallets are considerably lighter. I'm sad that they've got to find out for themselves really because of idiots like Monbiot.