Monbiot's TV show.....Apocalypse Cow: How Meat Killed the Planet

[Muck Spreader]

You said that way better than me. I dont believe that CV got it wrong but that the info she based her sums on may have been wrong. The info used has been withdrawn.

The difficulty is what Monbiot actually meant, looks like he was trying to be a bit too clever making the 20,000 times more efficient look like it was also including the vast amounts of solar panels required. It looks like you would need increase your electricity requirement by at least a third ( that must be solar panels or wind) to produce this stuff, on top of any future extra demand from electric cars, heating etc.

Interestingly the manufacture of this stuff claims it,s key benefit is:- "It does not permanently remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, but it circulates it. Therefore, it can be thought as carbon neutral. CO2 is removed from the atmosphere if so-called direct air capture (DAC) technology is used to get the required CO2, but once the food is consumed, carbon returns to the atmosphere through respiration in the form of CO2". Surprisingly that's just what cows do!

Also non farm protein is not particularly new as it's been available from algal production methods for many years and used in food products and again it's potentially more efficient than Soya production.

 

[Robin1966]

Hi guys, yes me again, the chap who came here fact finding when Monbiot had a go at maize farmers (I absolutely promise not to mention hunting again, so pax and some apologies to those I wound up last time because of that). For a reminder, the result of that last exchange was this article in Bioenergy Insight (page 26): https://issuu.com/horseshoemedialtd/docs/bioenergy_insight_may-june_2017_v2 ). So, anyway, I started watching Apocalypse Cow with an open mind, waiting to hear what Monbiot had to say. However, that open mindedness soon got wiped out when I listened to how Monbiot was talking to Abi Reader, fairly early on in the programme. I was totally shocked by his attitude to say the least. It was just so diabolically rude! Totally dismissive, very hostile and confrontational and I just thought to myself "you ignorant *******!". I've now got in touch with Abi via Twitter by the way and, when I recover from this cold I am suffering from at the moment, going to interview her with a view to writing another article. Also, I have to say with some dismay, though not entirely, I am just going to stop referring to him as an 'old friend' from now on. I don't believe, now, he deserves my respect, never mind my friendship.

However, I remain an environmentalist and a climate change and clean energy journalist, and I would hate to think that the farming community now regards all environmentalists are anti-farming idiots. We are most certainly not, not all of us anyway, but I understand the reasons why some farmers may think that, if they do.

I am really angry at the way Monbiot has, apparently, continued what seems to be his own personal war against farmers, and quite upset too, because it's just not necessary. I certainly don't have any near the amount of influence that Monbiot does, but nevertheless, I fully intend to have a go back at him in my own small way. I am not sure what magazine this forthcoming article will end up in yet, but if all else fails, I can usually get a piece in PoliticsMeansPolitics (https://vip.politicsmeanspolitics.com/ ) so I will head there if all else fails.

In the meantime, all the best to you all and speak again soon. Cheers.

 

[Chasingmytail]

I like this article https://lachefnet.wordpress.com/201...pxcaG58gdj1M4dcz6j3CCiMOt03QrnmeGm2nE5TZulTPQ

 

[Robin1966]

Hmm.
I'd like to think it'll go away, but it ain't.
Look at what Gove believes, and who he put in position.

Anyway..... I'm tired.
I've been rained on more or les continually for 3 months, I'm feeding 300 cattle which aren't worth much at all - well, to anyone else- and don't look like being worth much anytime soon.
Meanwhile it feels like every smug urban w*nker in the media wants to shout how terrible my community and I are, destroying the planet with our evil burping farting cows.
(my cows don't seem to be doing this with much malice aforethought...they are just happy if a nice bale turns up in the feeder in the morning)

I've patiently responded week after week, calling out the half-baked nonsense for what it is.
I've tried to rein in our own side when we make silly claims.
I've kept on telling Joe Public to think through the actual chemistry and processes.
But the likes of Monbiot just go on and on, fixated on their disingenuous message.

I've tried not to let it get me down.
I've hoped that DEFRA would come out and say it loud and clear that we should be growing as much of our own food as we sensibly can, and that grazing livestock is one of the very best ways of doing this.
I've waited and hoped that some media savvy champion will blow them out of the water - and the unlikely best we've got seems to be Piers Morgan, who'd I'd otherwise describe as odious.

I'm sick of it now.
Fairness and honesty don't seem to work.
They go on attacking everything that I am, relentless, peddling lies to do it, while living in a system themselves which very evidently is destroying the natural environment.

You know something fellas?
I just want to respond with a heavy blackthorn cudgel now.

The trouble is, trying to get a piece in the mainstream media is pretty difficult for a relatively unknown freelance journalist like me (unfortunately it all too often it seems to be who you know not what you know). If I had the chance of a reply in The Guardian though, make no mistake, I would berate Monbiot severely.

 

[Robin1966]

You just can't get away from the fact that ruminants carry out a vital role in the cycle of life- they eat roughage and convert it into high quality protein (and fat) as meat and milk, leaving behind valuable manure.
The "experts" seek to overcomplicate things- trying to replicate what ruminants do via manufactured food, by trying to bypass agriculture.
Sure, agriculture needs to change, we can be the solution to the climate problem (perceived or otherwise), not via the latest climate conference inspired wheeze, such as biogas or carbon credits but by low tech methods used in regenerative agriculture. (mob grazing, notill, etc etc).
Why can't UK Agriculture go on the offensive and take these to the media, or have a go at the newly announced Earthshot Prize.

As a renewable energy journalist, I am in regular contact with ADBA (Anaerobic Digestion and Bioresources Association). I was under the impression that biogas from AD can replace 30 percent of imported natural gas. Is that incorrect then?

 

[Robin1966]

I used to have a lad worked for me long ago . He always said " I can't cope with these educated types , they're all effin' thick"

I think some perspective is needed here. A university degree doesn't stop someone from having biases unfortunately....

 

[Robin1966]

Does anybody REALLY think that the few cows we have on our little island do any sort of significant harm to our environment when we share the planet with the likes of India, China and America?

What we do here is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Don't get me wrong, we do need to look at what we are doing but it's not going to solve the worlds problems.

Does anybody REALLY think that the few cows we have on our little island do any sort of significant harm to our environment when we share the planet with the likes of India, China and America?

What we do here is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Don't get me wrong, we do need to look at what we are doing but it's not going to solve the worlds problems.

Global greenhouse gases from agriculture are around 24-28 percent, so globally there's a problem, yes. But, UK GHG emissions are between 6-10 percent, so we're not too badly actually.

 

[Cowabunga]

As a renewable energy journalist, I am in regular contact with ADBA (Anaerobic Digestion and Bioresources Association). I was under the impression that biogas from AD can replace 30 percent of imported natural gas. Is that incorrect then?

Where does it get its feedstock? As far as I can see there are huge areas of arable land cropped specifically to feed these things, primarily with maize. Also the burners [as opposed to digesters] are taking vast amounts of straw that pushes the price up to traditional livestock farmer buyers in the West. There's a massive [by Ceredigion standards] power plant locally that uses wood chips. Nine or more artic loads a day feed it, plus they have now installed their own big chipper that takes loads of forestry wood from near and far. Agricultural fencing posts are now in short supply and are very expensive as a result. At the rate they are cutting forestry down around here there won't be much left in five years time.

The chips primarily seem to come from Scotland from a company called Jenkinson whose trucks are a regular sight on the A74 down through Scotland. Some say that a high proportion of this wood is imported for Canada and Russia, but I can't confirm this.

How the heck is any of this justifiable let alone 'sustainable' or environmentally friendly?

 

[Robin1966]

Where does it get its feedstock? As far as I can see there are huge areas of arable land cropped specifically to feed these things, primarily with maize. Also the burners [as opposed to digesters] are taking vast amounts of straw that pushes the price up to traditional livestock farmer buyers in the West. There's a massive [by Ceredigion standards] power plant locally that uses wood chips. Nine or more artic loads a day feed it, plus they have now installed their own big chipper that takes loads of forestry wood from near and far. Agricultural fencing posts are now in short supply and are very expensive as a result. At the rate they are cutting forestry down around here there won't be much left in five years time.

The chips primarily seem to come from Scotland from a company called Jenkinson whose trucks are a regular sight on the A74 down through Scotland. Some say that a high proportion of this wood is imported for Canada and Russia, but I can't confirm this.

How the heck is any of this justifiable let alone 'sustainable' or environmentally friendly?

Good answer. If I remember I'll bounce that off ADBA when I'm back on my feet again (in bed with a cold at the moment) and see what they say. Thanks. ?

 

[Suffolk Serf]

Where does it get its feedstock? As far as I can see there are huge areas of arable land cropped specifically to feed these things, primarily with maize. Also the burners [as opposed to digesters] are taking vast amounts of straw that pushes the price up to traditional livestock farmer buyers in the West. There's a massive [by Ceredigion standards] power plant locally that uses wood chips. Nine or more artic loads a day feed it, plus they have now installed their own big chipper that takes loads of forestry wood from near and far. Agricultural fencing posts are now in short supply and are very expensive as a result. At the rate they are cutting forestry down around here there won't be much left in five years time.

The chips primarily seem to come from Scotland from a company called Jenkinson whose trucks are a regular sight on the A74 down through Scotland. Some say that a high proportion of this wood is imported for Canada and Russia, but I can't confirm this.

How the heck is any of this justifiable let alone 'sustainable' or environmentally friendly?

Exactly. It depends how much land you take out of food production (all of it if you listen to some people!).
I'm very happy that the pigs that I produce go to a farm where there slurry goes into a large AD plant in addition to waste from food manufacture, exactly what AD plants should be doing.

 

[Robin1966]

Exactly. It depends how much land you take out of food production (all of it if you listen to some people!).
I'm very happy that the pigs that I produce go to a farm where there slurry goes into a large AD plant in addition to waste from food manufacture, exactly what AD plants should be doing.

Yes, that's exactly the kind of AD I was thinking of. ?

 

[Fuzzy]

Where does it get its feedstock? As far as I can see there are huge areas of arable land cropped specifically to feed these things, primarily with maize. Also the burners [as opposed to digesters] are taking vast amounts of straw that pushes the price up to traditional livestock farmer buyers in the West. There's a massive [by Ceredigion standards] power plant locally that uses wood chips. Nine or more artic loads a day feed it, plus they have now installed their own big chipper that takes loads of forestry wood from near and far. Agricultural fencing posts are now in short supply and are very expensive as a result. At the rate they are cutting forestry down around here there won't be much left in five years time.

The chips primarily seem to come from Scotland from a company called Jenkinson whose trucks are a regular sight on the A74 down through Scotland. Some say that a high proportion of this wood is imported for Canada and Russia, but I can't confirm this.

How the heck is any of this justifiable let alone 'sustainable' or environmentally friendly?

This is in relation to DRAX power Station

By 2010, the station was co-firing biomass. In 2012, the company announced plans to convert three generating units to solely biomass, burning 7.5 million tonnes imported from the United States and Canada. This work was completed in 2016[3] and a further fourth unit was converted in 2018.

 

[Robin1966]

This is in relation to DRAX power Station

By 2010, the station was co-firing biomass. In 2012, the company announced plans to convert three generating units to solely biomass, burning 7.5 million tonnes imported from the United States and Canada. This work was completed in 2016[3] and a further fourth unit was converted in 2018.

Yes, that's biomass, not biogas. Two different things.

 

[Robin1966]

Oh Yes, is that the same UN that in 1974 said that we only had 25 years of Oil left?
Plunging the entire globe into a massive recession and hyperinflation?

Peak oil is a thing though, many of the big reserves are running low, which explains the rise of deeper drilling, tar oil sands and shale gas (fracking), but of course no-one can be exactly sure when we will run out, although even that's not really important. What is important is the decline on the other side of the 'peak', which is when all global 'growth' judders to a halt.

 

[Robin1966]

Seem them digging 9 metre deep holes in the peat up here. Fill it with concrete for windturbines. That peat would have done more good than a turbine ever will

Er, I don't think so. We need to decarbonise our energy generation, and quickly.

 

[SteveHants]

Er, I don't think so. We need to decarbonise our energy generation, and quickly.

But isn't the carbon footprint of the cement and building the wind turbines reasonably massive? I've heard that they need to run for 25-30 years to become carbon neutral.

 

[Robin1966]

I like this article https://lachefnet.wordpress.com/201...pxcaG58gdj1M4dcz6j3CCiMOt03QrnmeGm2nE5TZulTPQ

That's really good ?

 

[Robin1966]

But isn't the carbon footprint of the cement and building the wind turbines reasonably massive? I've heard that they need to run for 25-30 years to become carbon neutral.

6 months according to this https://www.saskwind.ca/blogbackend/2016/1/14/carbon-and-energy-payback-of-a-wind-turbine

 

[Robin1966]

6 months according to this https://www.saskwind.ca/blogbackend/2016/1/14/carbon-and-energy-payback-of-a-wind-turbine

And Factcheck seems to support that answer also: https://www.factcheck.org/2018/03/wind-energys-carbon-footprint/

 

[Scribus]

Er, I don't think so. We need to decarbonise our energy generation, and quickly.

No, we need to improve the methods of recycling carbon, it's what nature does. what could be greener?