Monsanto court case

[delilah]

er DDT ?

 

[delilah]

sorry beaten to it, but come on, I am guessing you are an arable farmer, there will be a list of substances you would have happily reached for 20/30/40 years ago, but would now say "oh no, we wouldn't use that".
OP sheep dip.
Battery cages.
Sow stalls
There are examples from every sector of agriculture that make my point for me.

 

[Al R]

er DDT ?

Aldrin (dieldrin) and Chlordane also...
All the organochlorines are gone now I think? In the UK anyway..

 

[Osca]

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1D916C

Doesn't take long to find a study of ag workers cancer rate vs general population but it's a little inconvenient for the antis.

It's a depressing future lau ahead when emotion and conspiracy theories when over the cold boring truth of reality.

For a lot of people I think they are underwhelmed with there lot in life so it's easy to believe that there is some dark government keeping everything a secret and in fact things are just like they seem in the movies.

Edit; just because I believe it to be safe doesn't mean I think over use or misuse of it is ok. Used correctly it is a fantastic tool.

That link is actually disturbing. It is the leukemia bit; I had never met with this disease in adults - until I moved here - but I have now seen 2, possibly 3 deaths from it amongst otherwise fit, healthy farming people. It doesn't prove anything, of course, and I hope it is just coincidence, but I am not sorry it is being looked into. Glyphosphate is a really useful tool but Monsanto's latest use of it is a misuse, I think. Apart from anything else, the crop becomes the weed and you can't then get rid of it. Plus there was a story, a while back, from someone deeply involved with developing the "Round-up Ready" strategy, that the danger wasn't from the spray itself but from damage to the crop, apparently too small to be more than a slight set-back, but which somehow allowed otherwise unimportant pathogens to get a foothold in the plant itself which were then being passed on into the food chain. I don't know what happened with that - I haven't been able to find it since. Was it untrue or was it suppressed? With an organisation as powerful as Monsanto, it is impossible to tell.

I may - or may not - agree with you re glyphosate.
However, do you agree with me that that is how things happen ? ie farmers embrace a chemical, ridicule those who oppose it, and then agree that it was a nasty that deserved to be banned once something else comes along.

Why try to ridicule farmers in this way? To some extent that is how every generation feels about the last generation's technology. After all, you didn't type that entry on a once-state-of-the-art, high tech, finger-crippling manual typewriter and stick it in the post for "snail mail" to deliver; I wonder how you would react if expected to do so?

 

[delilah]

I've got a horrible feeling that glyphosate will end up banned and it will be a triumph for anti-science over science. But we will keep battling away to ensure we keep it for as long as possible.

And the reason you will keep battling away for it, Guy, is because if UK agriculture in general - and the NFU in particular - is addicted to one thing then it is monoculture.
And the reason you are addicted to monoculture is because you are unwilling to acknowledge that the only way out of the blind alley is to turn around and embrace a return to smaller scale, mixed farming.
And the reason you can't do that is because it doesn't sit well with the supermarkets - who the NFU are in complete thrall to - as they only want to buy from as small a number as possible of dedicated (ie subservient) primary producers.

 

[delilah]

Why try to ridicule farmers in this way?

sorry you need to read my post again, I wasn't ridiculing farmers (I am one...)

 

[Osca]

I have read your post again and I am sorry, but it does come across as ridicule.

edited to say - but that's the internet; perhaps you didn't mean that or I took it wrongly.

 

[SilliamWhale]

DDT

Marvellous pesticide but went horribly wrong when misused.

Well hmm DDT.

Ok i grant you it was released when they didnt do many tests. I dont here everyone beating a door to ban all insecticides as much as roundup.

Why?

 

[Irish NZ]

Well hmm DDT.

Ok i grant you it was released when they didnt do many tests. I dont here everyone beating a door to ban all insecticides as much as roundup.

Why?

Because its easy to pronounce.

And talk poppy syndrome. People view monsanto as the big evil corporation and it's their biggest product.

 

[SilliamWhale]

er DDT ?

Thats the flagship one. Pros and Cons with it.

 

[SilliamWhale]

sorry beaten to it, but come on, I am guessing you are an arable farmer, there will be a list of substances you would have happily reached for 20/30/40 years ago, but would now say "oh no, we wouldn't use that".
OP sheep dip.
Battery cages.
Sow stalls
There are examples from every sector of agriculture that make my point for me.

I dont know. I mean obviously as time goes on we evolve our ideas and society does too. But Im just saying it appears roundup doesn't appear to be the issue it is - I know of many worse.

I actually think in 20 years veganism is going to popular and more people will be repulsed by eating meat per se

 

[SilliamWhale]

And the reason you will keep battling away for it, Guy, is because if UK agriculture in general - and the NFU in particular - is addicted to one thing then it is monoculture.
And the reason you are addicted to monoculture is because you are unwilling to acknowledge that the only way out of the blind alley is to turn around and embrace a return to smaller scale, mixed farming.
And the reason you can't do that is because it doesn't sit well with the supermarkets - who the NFU are in complete thrall to - as they only want to buy from as small a number as possible of dedicated (ie subservient) primary producers.

I think thats an excitable conclusion.

I use roundup and grow 8 different crops this year.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

sorry beaten to it, but come on, I am guessing you are an arable farmer, there will be a list of substances you would have happily reached for 20/30/40 years ago, but would now say "oh no, we wouldn't use that".
OP sheep dip.
Battery cages.
Sow stalls
There are examples from every sector of agriculture that make my point for me.

OP dip - I seem to remember many farmers complaining this was affecting their health long before it was officially acknowledged it was a problem so don't think you've picked a good example there. Probably same with battery hens too - plenty farmers wouldn't have been comfortable with them. Wouldn't pretend to know much about other chems though.

 

[Al R]

I think thats an excitable conclusion.

I use roundup and grow 8 different crops this year.

And I’m growing 5 different crops with no pesticides or fertiliser used and havnt been used for over 20 years.
As you know Will I am very pro pesticide’s so I’m not trying to argue on this one.

The public or lobbying groups whatever you want to call them are attacking roundup because it’s monsanto’s Best product and a lot of people don’t like Monsanto because of GM etc... The same people who “hate” Monsanto in the general public are the same ones that will be the first to starve if their vegetables/soya products can’t be grown. Turkeys voting for Christmas doesn’t come close!

 

[kiwi pom]

And the reason you will keep battling away for it, Guy, is because if UK agriculture in general - and the NFU in particular - is addicted to one thing then it is monoculture.
And the reason you are addicted to monoculture is because you are unwilling to acknowledge that the only way out of the blind alley is to turn around and embrace a return to smaller scale, mixed farming.
And the reason you can't do that is because it doesn't sit well with the supermarkets - who the NFU are in complete thrall to - as they only want to buy from as small a number as possible of dedicated (ie subservient) primary producers.

I'll ignore the glyphosate cancer thing because the science shows no credible link as far as i'm aware and I'm not getting into the Monsanto bashing because I think its ridiculous. So that leaves me with "smaller scale mixed farming" The mixed farming bit is fine but why do you think smaller scale is better?

 

[Cowabunga]

Thats the flagship one. Pros and Cons with it.

It [DDT]is still used and continues to save tens of thousands of lives every year of course. Same goes for Thalidomide, which is a medicine rather than a pesticide but which has a very chequered history to say the least, when it was inadequately tested and inappropriately [as it turned out] prescribed in the late 1950's. Testing regulations were very significantly tightened in the developed world after that and other such incidents, including the widespread use of DDT, which impacted bird eggs more than humans.
Today Thalidomide is safely and effectively used to fight one of the most debilitating diseases of mankind, leprosy. Also widely used in the UK to fight skin cancer, inflammatory bowel diseases and TB.

Roundup has been very extensively used worldwide and especially in N.America for probably five decades now and absolutely no evidence has turned up to question its general safety. Indeed it is probably the safest herbicide available to agriculture and horticulture. It's even sold in the isles near the groceries at your local supermarket for garden and pathway use by the general public with zero restriction.

 

[Guy Smith]

And the reason you will keep battling away for it, Guy, is because if UK agriculture in general - and the NFU in particular - is addicted to one thing then it is monoculture.
And the reason you are addicted to monoculture is because you are unwilling to acknowledge that the only way out of the blind alley is to turn around and embrace a return to smaller scale, mixed farming.
And the reason you can't do that is because it doesn't sit well with the supermarkets - who the NFU are in complete thrall to - as they only want to buy from as small a number as possible of dedicated (ie subservient) primary producers.

I'm not addicted to monoculture in the slightest and nor are UK farmers unless you consider grass or things like vineyards and apple orchards monoculture.

Nor am in the thrall of supermarkets. I'm completely in favour of lots of outlets for UK farm produce but I'm also aware that large grocers aren't going to go away any time soon, it's how most UK consumers choose to shop whether we like it or not. But I am in favour of greater powers for the GCA and statutory enforcement of the beef and dairy codes.

And I'm fully in favour of small mixed farms but what I'm not happy about is turning the British countryside into some sort of Victorian theme park where farms produce even less while we import an increasing amount of our food needs from the world's agricultural powerhouses where farmers have lower costs because of lighter regulation or get greater support.

And I'm at a loss as to what this has got to do with glyphosate which is a safe herbicide that allows farmers to better manage their soils and reduce their use of fossil fuels. It's used by farmers big and small, mixed or otherwise. It's used by gardeners. If farmers want to farm without glyphosate that's their right and I'll support their right to do so but in return I think a bit of tolerance of those farmers who want to use it might be reasonable rather than calling for bans for this that and the other because they offend certain ideologies or beliefs.

 

[Clive]

I forgot you liked a good conspiracy theory Clive.

Mind you I've heard rumours that Llamados disappeared because she found photos in your old office of Lord Lucan filming the moon landings in your back barns.

Not a lot of conspiracy about the Monsanto bill

 

[Muck Spreader]

I think if the US courts can find Johnson & Johnson guilty to the tune of $4 billion for producing talcum powder that has allegedly caused cancer in 22 women. What chance has Monsanto got.

 

[itsalwaysme]

And it’ll be terrible day when it is banned for a lot of people!
Between trilurafin and isoputoron people think they wouldn’t cope and although nothing has come close to replacing them the chemical companies soon had very good alternatives - surely they have something in the pipeline to replace glyphosate but won’t release it until they have to once glyphosate is gone?

Keep up the good work @Guy Smith

Maybe that's all part of the "plan" a new chemical waiting in the wings with a shiny new patent at 10x ££££'s