Moonboot on R2 no more livestock or farming!

Mark Hatton

Staff Member
Media
Location
Yorkshire
So how does ultra processed food fit into his thinking!
His counter to this, is that we move much of the food across the world to feed livestock, when he's got rid of all the livestock farms, there will be no need for all the feed, we'll become self sufficient in grains and fruit and veg, protein will come from bacteria, to be more precise, hydrogen-oxygenating bacterium, brewed in a fermentation tank, microbes and hydrogen, he's quoting figures of being able to feed 200 million people from an area similar to Greater London.
 
It’s not as simple as that, because most of the reason it will hit [and peak] at 90 million is not because of excess new births but due to those already here now today getting old.
However, making populations relatively richer and less catholic but educating more women does indeed result in fewer children per woman of childbearing age.
The adjustment to a lower population in developed countries is going to be seriously troublesome though and countries like Japan are likely to see their gross domestic product and living standards decline very substantially. In the UK we can already see this, where migrant labour has left [which has a near identical effect on output] and there is a shortage of labour to actually fill job vacancies, thus limiting output and wealth creation.
two ways to deal with dropping birth numbers, either accept it (and keep the country relatively homogenous), so little immigration (Japan's way) or accept a lot of immigrants (and allow the culture of the country to change - UK way). As to which is the better way, no idea, and by the time we know, it will be too late!
 
His counter to this, is that we move much of the food across the world to feed livestock, when he's got rid of all the livestock farms, there will be no need for all the feed, we'll become self sufficient in grains and fruit and veg, protein will come from bacteria, to be more precise, hydrogen-oxygenating bacterium, brewed in a fermentation tank, microbes and hydrogen, he's quoting figures of being able to feed 200 million people from an area similar to Greater London.

Does this technology exist and is it proven to function on such a scale? I personally can't see that the half of the Earth's population who have yet to eat a lamb chop, piece of bacon or a fried egg are going to be too hot on existing on this phood(TM) sludge he intends to serve up.
 
two ways to deal with dropping birth numbers, either accept it (and keep the country relatively homogenous), so little immigration (Japan's way) or accept a lot of immigrants (and allow the culture of the country to change - UK way). As to which is the better way, no idea, and by the time we know, it will be too late!

The UK has always been a fully multicultural society anyway- as a maritime power and trade hub all nationalities came to the UK and also left for other shores. Similarly, many many people of different nationalities fought for the crown in the army or navy for hundreds of years.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Location
Cumbria
Does this technology exist and is it proven to function on such a scale? I personally can't see that the half of the Earth's population who have yet to eat a lamb chop, piece of bacon or a fried egg are going to be too hot on existing on this phood(TM) sludge he intends to serve up.
And the other half actually rather like a lamb chop, bacon and egg. How is he going to "make" me eat his slop?
 
he's quoting figures of being able to feed 200 million people from an area similar to Greater London.

I'd like to know how he squares this against food security.

Going back to the dawn of recorded history wars have caused famines and we have seen in 2022 how a conflict in a relatively tiny part of the world has potentially catastrophic consequences for regional (and beyond?) food and energy security. A handful of precision strikes with long range guided missiles on power stations (e.g. Chernobyl) and major ports (e.g. Odessa/Mariupol) was dead easy for the Russians to carry out and more or less impossible to stop.

Putting the food supply for 200m people in an area the size of the M25 circle is a whole new level of madness.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Location
Cumbria
I'd like to know how he squares this against food security.

Going back to the dawn of recorded history wars have caused famines and we have seen in 2022 how a conflict in a relatively tiny part of the world has potentially catastrophic consequences for regional (and beyond?) food and energy security. A handful of precision strikes with long range guided missiles on power stations (e.g. Chernobyl) and major ports (e.g. Odessa/Mariupol) was dead easy for the Russians to carry out and more or less impossible to stop.

Putting the food supply for 200m people in an area the size of the M25 circle is a whole new level of madness.
Bit like Almeria in Spain then? No issues there at all….

Although I doubt he actually wants it all in one place?
 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
NFFN Member
Location
Cb97ej
It's important not to get carried away with the idea that the chap and others like him are raving lunatics.

He may not have a clear grasp of farming or food security but who actually does?

It's a very complex issue, feeding 9bn people without destroying the rest of the planet. He's more concerned about the ecosystem, rightly so, because if that goes we all go.
 

J 1177

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Durham, UK
It's important not to get carried away with the idea that the chap and others like him are raving lunatics.

He may not have a clear grasp of farming or food security but who actually does?

It's a very complex issue, feeding 9bn people without destroying the rest of the planet. He's more concerned about the ecosystem, rightly so, because if that goes we all go.
Hes not concerned about anything other than selling books and making money, dont kid yourself
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
It's important not to get carried away with the idea that the chap and others like him are raving lunatics.

He may not have a clear grasp of farming or food security but who actually does?

It's a very complex issue, feeding 9bn people without destroying the rest of the planet. He's more concerned about the ecosystem, rightly so, because if that goes we all go.
He is not a lunatic. Indeed he is very capable and intelligent. Except that he is also quite stupid and mercenary.

The main problem feeding 9bn people is one of geography. The increase from today is overwhelmingly going to be in Africa with a smaller blip in Asia. The population elsewhere will likely be stable or decline without immigration.
Unfortunately Africa is ridden with corruption, ineptitude and war, all of which combined with the traditional episodes of pestilence and drought make it unlikely that they will be able to feed themselves. Which begs the question as to whether the forecast increase in their population will actually happen or as has happened through their history, infant deaths and starvation will increase to a point where their population is self-limiting at a somewhat lower level.
 
It's important not to get carried away with the idea that the chap and others like him are raving lunatics.

He may not have a clear grasp of farming or food security but who actually does?

It's a very complex issue, feeding 9bn people without destroying the rest of the planet. He's more concerned about the ecosystem, rightly so, because if that goes we all go.

The thing is for all farming's faults we have done a better job than we ever have done thus far in terms of people being fed better (getting fat and obese is a choice for those not eating well). We can and will continue to improve where we can as well.

You talk about the ecosystem "going" but what do you mean?
 

Mark Hatton

Staff Member
Media
Location
Yorkshire
The thing is for all farming's faults we have done a better job than we ever have done thus far in terms of people being fed better (getting fat and obese is a choice for those not eating well). We can and will continue to improve where we can as well.

You talk about the ecosystem "going" but what do you mean?
I agree with what you say above, in general farming today is much more environmentally considerate than it ever has been, could it better, most definitely, science and technology has improved the way we farm and to a degree so has public opinion, as much as many don't like having the general public wondering about their farms, these are farmings customers, they are the ones we need to influence more and promote what we do everyday. At the moment the likes Monbiot have a larger voice.
 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
NFFN Member
Location
Cb97ej
The thing is for all farming's faults we have done a better job than we ever have done thus far in terms of people being fed better (getting fat and obese is a choice for those not eating well). We can and will continue to improve where we can as well.

You talk about the ecosystem "going" but what do you mean?
As you know, farming is only a part of modern society that allows civilisation. Your doctor, computer nerd, bus driver, teacher or airline pilot can only do what they do because the farming part of civilisation grows enough for everyone.

Examples of ecosystems going would be desertification by over grazing in arid regions, cutting down rain forest to produce beef for fat Americans or soy for Chinese pigs.

Symptoms of ecosystem collapse would be swallows not returning or not hearing the cuckoo any more.

I don't blame any of this on farmers; it's civilisation.
 

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HSENI names new farm safety champions

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

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The Health and Safety Executive for Northern Ireland (HSENI) alongside the Farm Safety Partnership (FSP), has named new farm safety champions and commended the outstanding work on farm safety that has been carried out in the farming community in the last 20 years.

Two of these champions are Malcom Downey, retired principal inspector for the Agri/Food team in HSENI and Harry Sinclair, current chair of the Farm Safety Partnership and former president of the Ulster Farmers’ Union (UFU).

Improving farm safety is the key aim of HSENI’s and the FSP’s work and...
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