Moore Unidrill

[strawturner]

Bought a 4m unidrill tandem this time around, mainly for use after my carrier and a pass with the rolls. The idea was to try and reduce blackgrass by using a low disturbance drill to 'slot in' the seed and try not to move lots of soil encouraging another chit of the dreaded weed. But I'm having problems with it, not only is it not particularly low disturbance and moves quite a lot of soil but..

Firstly it seems to love bulldozing, more on loamy soils then clay, very frustrating when you cant do 1/4 an acre before needing to stop and unblock it, I've tried the coulters at 35mm above the disc witch didn't help much, and am now back at 20mm to try and reduce my next problem.
Second problem is I've now broken 4 of the shafts (stub axles) witch drive the coulter discs, in less then 40 acres, 3 of these were when the coulters were set 35mm so I thought the discs were in very deep causing more load around corners in the headlands etc, but then when I moved them back (not a small job!) I broke another one anyway. Our land is not particularly stoney but I now suspect stones to be the cause as on the last one that broke, a stone was wedged in there.
As well as all of this, I find setting the depth to be fairly hit and miss, particularly from left to right of the whole machine, the left of my machine seems to be running deeper then the right..

So where do I go from here will this machine be for me (don't think so at the moment!) what kind of drill for similar budget (£20k) would do what I want? I'm thinking of trying a sprinter, originally avoided because I thought it would move lots of soil, but it certainly wouldn't block up as much, what about a rapid, can you raise up the cultivation discs and use the coulters practically, this would give me more flexibility in varying conditions/land types/less blackgrassy areas..

Thoughts appreciated.

 

[Kevtherev]

Sim tech Aitchison?

 

[DrWazzock]

I'm using the old uni drill, but moving soil before using the drill is the cause of the bulldozing problems. At most, I would rake the stubbles before drilling. If you loosen the soil or uproot the stubble you will have problems. If you really have to move the soil before drilling, then roll down tight again before drilling.
Its not really a low disturbance drill. I agree.

Never go round a tight corner or bend with the drill in the ground. It will part the discs from the coulters and cause all sorts of stresses and strains on the stub axles and drag arms. seen them badly twisted due to this behind high hp tractors.

If you have on the move depth control then usually it's not a problem to tweak it as you go, but some sort of indicator on the drill is useful. I run a barrow wheel with solid rubber tyre on a drag arm between two coulters to give a relative indication of coulter tip depth relative to soil surface gauged by the barrow wheel. (Well it worked till the barrow wheel seized on its hub).

I once tried a tandem, and to be honest, couldn't really see benefit of the front rollers. They tended to ride the units too high over clods and increased the bulldozing risk. I preferred the original simplicity and effectiveness of the undrill. If you come to a hard bit you can cut it in well, whereas the front rollers prevent you from doing this as effectively, though you can give it a bit IIRC, using the drawbar hinge ram.

I will say though, that although I have often had concerns about seed depth, it hasn't failed so far to give a good and even crop emergence, usually ending up with the seed at the right depth. The danger of getting the seed too deep is not as great as you think, as the deeper you try to go, the more soil is moved to the side and ridged up between the seed rows rather than being returned to bury the seed too deeply.

 

[yellow belly]

you may be set too deep more weight on the rear rollers
to much loose soil
the soil needs to be much firmer
wait till it is dryer


I have used a moore on cultivated and notill and not broken the stub axles even on hard ground after linseed with notill

I often had the tip of the coulter 5 mm from the edge of the disc as for rape drilling

 

[DrWazzock]

PS. 19mm is correct coulter tip to disc edge for cereals.

I don't know why whoever it is who now owns the design doesn't manufacture more of the old basic unidrill, but perhaps with a few refinements like notched discs, bigger seed tubes, an Accord style hopper and blower, and on the move depth control with depth indicator. Easier coulter adjustment would help as well. And perhaps a press wheel design slightly less likely to lead to capping of the seed row.

 

[Richard III]

Never snapped an axle in six years of No Till with one. My experience was that the drill needs to be very well maintained, all good bearings and coulters adjusted up spot on against the disc. the slightest gap can let trash start to build up and then the disc will stall.

For true low disturbance you would need a 750A or GD Drill or the like, I would think.

 

[fergie35]

Never snapped an axle in six years of No Till with one. My experience was that the drill needs to be very well maintained, all good bearings and coulters adjusted up spot on against the disc. the slightest gap can let trash start to build up and then the disc will stall.

For true low disturbance you would need a 750A or GD Drill or the like, I would think.

and 6m anyone?

Was at the dealer event for these today. Will be interesting to get them in the field! 3.5degree disc angle instead of the Moore's 7degree, to try and be as minimal disturbance as possible.

 

[db9go]

I have seen a 6m maxi drill working local last week

 

[strawturner]

Thank you for your replies, I think if it was to dry out a bit that could help but it isn't what I would call wet out here, plenty of others drilling locally. A couple of things I would like to try today to get my barley in. But if this machine cant work on worked land as well as stubbles then it wont be for me.
As a rule of thumb I wouldn't turn around a corner tighter then say 80 degrees, rather back into the corner or loop around, so I don't feel I've been to hard on it to cause the hubs to fail, we have drilled the farm with a kuhn sd for years with minimal down time to breakdowns.
I've got the coulters close and parallel to the disc, with no trash build up, but am getting trash building up on the rear roller scraper, I've got the drill front low at the moment to try to get the press wheels to do more but might try and transfer some weight to the rear to see if that helps.

Be interesting to see what people think about a 750a and whether it would work in both no till and conventional seedbeds.

 

[bravheart]

seem to remember Sam saying get it pressed, and there used to be something on his website about testing the soil with your heel

 

[Mark C]

Swapped my old Unidrill for a Sumo Versadrill this season ( Moore system with loosening legs ) so far only had one disc stalling because of trash building up between the coulter and disc. We Cambridge roll before and after drilling on tilled ground and run with the drill 'head down' to get plenty of pressure on the front press wheels. So far really pleased with it.

 

[Mr Tree]

I'm and advocate of this drill , have been for a long time ,ran 2 vaderstads before this drill and for years and years at that.

We have a tandem 6m .We had previously 3 and 4 m vaderstads ,I'm pulling the Moore with the same tractor as the vaderstads but covering half as much land again.saving 1.

We can now drill winter beans .saving 2

We don't have to over cultivate ,we trio (or similar) and roll (with paddles).saving 3

You can direct drill if you wish. Saving 4

The trick to these drills is roll or press.they are so effective at placing the seed exactly where it.s supposed to go and accurately.

The tandem drill should run level.the old unidrill had problems in 'fluffy ground ' because it wanted to penetrate hence the advent of the tandem.

I would say if you have the old unidrill then lean the drill back a little on fluffier ground or press or roll in front of the drill.

It's a simple system that will gain popularity once again especially as everyone sees the advantages of the very efficient sost savings and timeliness that can be made.

Had Sam had a bigger budget and fighting power for marketing the vaderstads would pale into insignificance....

Never had as good crops and even emergence on very variable soil types.

 

[spikeislander]

As said maybe rolling in front might help

 

[strawturner]

All of this land was rolled! I've got some ex rape land going into wheat that I want to try tomorrow, think this will go well as its gone down tight. If issues persist on some fluffier stuff, will roll again (weather permitting). Its a tandem and I lifted the front of the drill today, to near level and that seemed to help a bit, but I wanted to get on without making a mess so just cracked on at 6/7kph to get it done, going slow helped the most. But I've got a lot to drill-roll-spray so would rather be going 10-12kph. It is quite frustrating as I can see the potential in this drill and would like to get on with it.

@Mr Tree I'm interested in you saying you can now drill beans, why did the vaderstads not cope with this? If I don't get on with this drill over the weekend I will most likely be swapping it for a 4m rapid, but would like to be able to drill beans.. Last year I sowed beans with our kuhn sd in the 3rd week of October into silty land and it was very puffy after the drill, soil everywhere on the drill. I very much doubt the unidrill would of got on in similar conditions

 

[Mr Tree]

A rapid will pan headlands down with those little wheels across the whole working width,also the counters are too small and winter beans get lodged and do not pass through them.

Give it time you'll adapt to the Moore,we drill at 12 13 kph with a 6m on 195 hp tractor.
The drill wants to be level with the tandem working in unison with the counters and packer .The seeding depth will be very accurate like this .

Just a side note.Are you drilling too deep? The drill is very positive and will be drilling deeper than you may think this can create a bulldozer effect due to the angle of the disc.
Start shallow ,put wind baffle about half way for cereals so you don't get too much seed bounce on the ground and let the press wheels do the work ,they put it in nice and tight ,are your press wheels the champhered ones?

 

[strawturner]

So had another go today, into this ex rape land rolled in august before the rain. For this reason the land is far wetter then the stuff I was drilling previously, so same issue but because its a bit too wet, and I can accept that.. But only managed 15ha all day Basically what happens is the discs throw soil into the press wheels where it becomes lodged and stalls them, in turn pushing a mound of soil into the discs, and when it happens under the hopper then into the front press wheels (because I cant always see it)
As for depth, I've got the 1in spacer towards the front of the drill if that makes sense, the rest towards the rear. This is setting no5 in the book. and it leaves the wheat about 30mm in the soil, not at the bottom of the slot, more off to one side. I was having trouble with one pair of coulters in particular so made it shallower, this I feel made it ever so slightly better but maby not?! I've got some drier land that I'm going to move onto next, probably run the rolls straight ahead and see what that does.
This drills fan doesn't have a baffle, its in horsch colours if that helps, I've been running the fan at 3000rpm, this is the lower end of what is recommended.

 

[fergie35]

A rapid will pan headlands down with those little wheels across the whole working width,also the counters are too small and winter beans get lodged and do not pass through them.

Give it time you'll adapt to the Moore,we drill at 12 13 kph with a 6m on 195 hp tractor.
The drill wants to be level with the tandem working in unison with the counters and packer .The seeding depth will be very accurate like this .

Just a side note.Are you drilling too deep? The drill is very positive and will be drilling deeper than you may think this can create a bulldozer effect due to the angle of the disc.
Start shallow ,put wind baffle about half way for cereals so you don't get too much seed bounce on the ground and let the press wheels do the work ,they put it in nice and tight ,are your press wheels the champhered ones?

You need to put the wider bean coulters on for winter beans. Readily available.

 

[Deere 6430]

SimTech would do what you want. Also rolls can vary in weight, you want a heavy set with 24 inch rings to roll it down tight. (Sorry if your rolls are heavy!)

 

[strawturner]

They are 24in but with paddles, and this land was all paddled, so that removes some of the rolling effect.. Will be rolling post drilling tomorrow, and will do some land pre - too see if that helps, spoke to Sammy today and he was helpful. I found today that the pair of press wheels causing the most problems were toeing out by a couple of degrees, so I'm going to rectify that and I think it will make a big difference.

Sam