Moorland and rough grazing ELMS payment

[delilah]

Defra announced yesterday that there will be a payment under the SFI for 'moorland and rough grazing'.
Three questions then:
1) What £/ha does it need to be set at in order for you to continue to manage such ground post BPS ? (don't just say zillions ).
2) Should the payment be dependent upon any specific criteria, or simply 'as you were'.
3) Should payments be weighted, with a higher £/Ha for the first xHa ( eg to support new entrants) or simply a flat rate ?
Defra have said they are announcing details including payment rates in November, so plenty of time to influence via the co-design process.

 

[Purli R]

Ha ha,Sorry couldn"t resist. Most of our farm will be moorland/rough grazing so will be of interest to us.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Defra announced yesterday that there will be a payment under the SFI for 'moorland and rough grazing'.
Three questions then:
1) What £/ha does it need to be set at in order for you to continue to manage such ground post BPS ? (don't just say zillions ).
2) Should the payment be dependent upon any specific criteria, or simply 'as you were'.
3) Should payments be weighted, with a higher £/Ha for the first xHa ( eg to support new entrants) or simply a flat rate ?
Defra have said they are announcing details including payment rates in November, so plenty of time to influence via the co-design process.

No matter what framework, guidelines or rules are set out, any sub will work it's way back to the landowner.

This applies to stewardship, ELMS, SFI and whatever else the department dream up.

Scrap the lot and let the industry stand on its own 2 feet.

 

[spin cycle]

don't know about 'moorland and rough grazing' but i'm now doing a 'wildlife offer' and the 'pp with very low inputs' at £95/ha isn't enough.....needs to be £150/ha IMO

 

[Jackov Altraids]

No matter what framework, guidelines or rules are set out, any sub will work it's way back to the landowner.

This applies to stewardship, ELMS, SFI and whatever else the department dream up.

Scrap the lot and let the industry stand on its own 2 feet.

In essence, you are absolutely right.

The trouble with ELMS as I see it is that it gives LANDOWNERS a simple choice of farming land or not. I don't think they understand the environmental damage that will be done if areas are no longer grazed.
A headage payment would lead to over grazing.
I would suggest that there should be a reasonable area payment for moorland and rough grazing with the grazing being a condition of payment. The claimant then has a choice of buying the necessary number of stock or paying someone else to do it.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

In essence, you are absolutely right.

The trouble with ELMS as I see it is that it gives LANDOWNERS a simple choice of farming land or not. I don't think they understand the environmental damage that will be done if areas are no longer grazed.
A headage payment would lead to over grazing.
I would suggest that there should be a reasonable area payment for moorland and rough grazing with the grazing being a condition of payment. The claimant then has a choice of buying the necessary number of stock or paying someone else to do it.

We are lowland so it won't affect us but you've hit a big issue there. DEFRA seem to have swallowed the traditional ecology claim that grazing livestock are bad so the grassland standards include actions to limit stocking rates. It's actually overgrazing that's bad, not stocking rate. Overgrazing is entirely driven by time, not numbers. Small numbers of stock can overgraze land too.

Removing grazing from grazed landscapes can also be very damaging to biodiversity.

All this needs accounting for to make the standard deliver the desired outcome.

 

[Tim W]

What happens to moorland and rough grazing if it doesn't get payments for grazing?

 

[Northern territory]

why are people getting so excited at these payment rates. £70 per ha which I understand is the upper rate is pathetic unless you are covering several thousand ha

 

[Top Tip.]

What happens to moorland and rough grazing if it doesn't get payments for grazing?

It is abandoned,becomes unsightly and then becomes a wildfire risk. I can take you to areas of Scotland where it is already happening.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

My vote would be to bring back lime sub and stuff the aid package , but probably in the minority

 

[Northern territory]

My vote would be to bring back lime sub and stuff the aid package , but probably in the minority

Don’t forget drainage schemes

 

[BrianV]

What happens to moorland and rough grazing if it doesn't get payments for grazing?

It will end up as one huge bonfire just like you see abroad, without grazed out patches any fire that starts will be uncontrollable & destroy just about everything, won't those idiotic wilders be embarrassed but then it won't their fault will it?

 

[Northern territory]

It will end up as one huge bonfire just like you see abroad, without grazed out patches any fire that starts will be uncontrollable & destroy just about everything, won't those idiotic wilders be embarrassed but then it won't their fault will it?

Like banning burning heather to create fire breaks, they know best though

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Don’t forget drainage schemes

Think that would be a step to far for them , but lime sub would help me enormously

 

[Hilly]

My vote would be to bring back lime sub and stuff the aid package , but probably in the minority

And what benefit will that bring to any farmer ?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

And what benefit will that bring to any farmer ?

I spend a small fortune on lime so it would help me a lot , and increase productivity on farms , a lot of farms not seen lime since the lime sub endended, but I realize I'm as popular as a wasp at a party

 

[7610 super q]

What happens to moorland and rough grazing if it doesn't get payments for grazing?

Proper farmers drain it, lime it, improve it, and grow food on it.


£500 / acre to keep it in it's useless unimproved state ?

£50/ acre ain't going to cut it. This isn't the 14th Century any more.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Proper farmers drain it, lime it, improve it, and grow food on it.


£500 / acre to keep it in it's useless unimproved state ?

£50/ acre ain't going to cut it. This isn't the 14th Century any more.

Or the forestry commission planted it
Another wasp I'm the room

 

[7610 super q]

Where did the powers that be get the idea for ELMS and all this guff ?
They seem to have the ear of some right tw ats.
Why do they think they can get away with paying £50-70 / acre for these schemes ? ( And f**k quoting payments in ha, so it sounds better....not falling for that )

We needed a clean sweep after leaving the EU/ CAP, not more of the same silly enviro schemes that pay f**k all.

 

[delilah]

No matter what framework, guidelines or rules are set out, any sub will work it's way back to the landowner.

This applies to stewardship, ELMS, SFI and whatever else the department dream up.

Scrap the lot and let the industry stand on its own 2 feet.

I had a stab at addressing this on the attached.
For our more productive land, its primary public good is producing food for the nation. Farmers should be left to get on with doing that with whatever farming system they feel is most appropriate for their farm, free of Government interference.
Our less productive land - what Defra are calling 'moorland and rough grazing' - is very different. It provides a wide range of public goods, with food production being some way down the list.
Which is why I have argued from day 1 of ELMS that all area based payments should go to permanent pasture.