More days/mornings off or shorter easier day

[ollie989898]

I think we should and we will need pay them similar for less hours.

Happier staff will probably be just as productive in the same timeframe and make you more money and be more reliable anyway?

No doubt the TFF hardcore will disagree as they feel anyone working less than 80 hours a week is a lightweight good-for-nothing punk.

 

[DairyGrazing]

7 odd hours a day for a cow to be on her feet being drashed by other cows and attacked by flies or stood in the heat is also a third of her lifespan nearly when you think about it.

We only push 50 cows out at a time they all run in the same groups

I was wondering that question.... But a Youngster!

The right age to be spending money/investing in the business surely?

Definitely agree sooner you to it the better.

 

[DairyGrazing]

Seen it before, old parlour ripped out, milker working in bail for 6 months of hell. Helping push cows into new parlour and told won't need you from now on.

Lol, our milk recorder of 28 years recorded in a rat hole for 20 years. Farmer put in a fancy 50:50 fast exit with a cellar and got CIS in for the first recording

We went from 10 a side with jars to 19 aside direct to line in 2009. Missed one milking each side to get from a step to ramp in the collecting yard. Then another milking each side to concrete the cow standing.



We'd be moving to new site this time.

 

[DairyGrazing]

From seeing other reports here and in the press, it is the livestock housing buildings that worry Planners, an upgrade to a parlour will/should be less hassle I would hope.

Ammonia and Trees? Sounds like eco PC nonsense, but one to be worried about into the future I am sure... Probably have to come up with creative plans for slurry disposal etc...

That's the impression I got so I'm keen to get the cubicles extended first. That will save 20k in straw as one side of the shed is young stock on straw yards. Need the extension get everything here on cubicle.

Just don't know if I should out it all in at the same time. Extension, parlour and a small lagoon which I already have planning for to take the parlour washing as it miles from the lagoon and lower.

Spoke to our agent last week and he said it was so hit and miss at the moment but generally the bigger the planning the longer it was taking.

 

[DairyGrazing]

This is what we are considering 32/64 2 men swing over with adf. We may dig the pit for 44/88 and concrete over the top. So we can extend it easily in the future if needed and put a 3rd man in.

That is a smaller version think the rapid exit bit was made by a shed builder next door.

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We would be looking at some thing similar to this but GEA.

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[upnortheast]

Parlour maintainence was hefty on newish ones and savage on anything 10 years plus!

You what ?, I hear time & again on here it is robots with the savage maintenance costs

 

[steveR]

You what ?, I hear time & again on here it is robots with the savage maintenance costs

I was wondering (as a non milking person) why the OP was not looking at a robotic setup? Possibly this is the explanation!

With Labour becoming ever more difficult, especially with no more Eastern European stockmen/women coming in, surely anything that minimises labour costs will be a good thing, admittedly, with a nod to the necessity of robots milkers, still requiring a good stockman!

 

[DairyGrazing]

You what ?, I hear time & again on here it is robots with the savage maintenance costs

Couple of robot farms here very much farmer dependent in terms of cost. One with two young sons do it all themselves and buy genetic parts/cannibalise cheap 2nd hand ones. Another farm the fitters live there.

I've got good access to some the COP on a couple of rotaries and its enough to put me off.

 

[dairyrow]

Might sound daft. But why not put 2 16/32 side by side and have a man in each.

 

[DairyGrazing]

I was wondering (as a non milking person) why the OP was not looking at a robotic setup? Possibly this is the explanation!

With Labour becoming ever more difficult, especially with no more Eastern European stockmen/women coming in, surely anything that minimises labour costs will be a good thing, admittedly, with a nod to the necessity of robots milkers, still requiring a good stockman!

We'd need 6 robots, not sure how much that would cost? We keep the cows out until early November with the front of the furthest paddock being 1.2km from the top of the track. Quite a long narrow farm, if we could get an underpass to the other side of the road it would be easier. That makes grazing tricky. If we were never going to expand and I wasn't here think my father would put two in our new shed and milk the top cows there.

Heard an Irish investor speak a few years ago. They preferred 100:100 fast exit parlours for cost and efficiency but had recently started building 80 point rotaries. As in the future they believed they'd be able to automate them with prep arms, attaching attaching arms and post spray robot. They had 13 lely robots pushing up the silage on one farm!

 

[steveR]

We'd need 6 robots, not sure how much that would cost? We keep the cows out until early November with the front of the furthest paddock being 1.2km from the top of the track. Quite a long narrow farm, if we could get an underpass to the other side of the road it would be easier. That makes grazing tricky. If we were never going to expand and I wasn't here think my father would put two in our new shed and milk the top cows there.

Heard an Irish investor speak a few years ago. They preferred 100:100 fast exit parlours for cost and efficiency but had recently started building 80 point rotaries. As in the future they believed they'd be able to automate them with prep arms, attaching attaching arms and post spray robot. They had 13 lely robots pushing up the silage on one farm!

BIG investment required, whatever you choose, I can see.

100:100.... Jeezus that is Big, I saw a massive (at the time) pair of Herringbones in Montana 20 odd years, staffed with Mexican labour, and there was a hell of a lot of labour on farm... His business model was pretty well based on cheap labour though...

 

[vantage]

Yeah I've been to see a lot on smaller farms with a rotary. Down side was most needed 3 milkers to get the best out of it in the morning then 2 in the afternoons if they had adf. They seemed to milk 90% of the cows super quick then it took at least an hour to milk the bucket cows and wash down.

Our dealer did a print out of all his clients parlours from the parlour software so no pub talk. It's was frightening how poor the real output was on some on the parlours big and small.

In terms of cows/hr litres/hr cows/man litres/man the stand out by far was a 16/32.

I've also seen some of the COPs for some of the farms with rotaries. Parlour maintainence was hefty on newish ones and savage on anything 10 years plus!

3 rotary parlours installed by members of my discussion group. All Milfos/GEA. 40, 50, 54 point. The 40 point has been in longest, 360 cows, one operator , block calved , high output herd.
Auto retention and deck spray on two, I haven’t seen the newest. Would expect help needed(understandably) at calving as they’re all block calvers.
Regarding running costs, I wouldn’t know, @Grassman247 has his finger on that pulse.

Might sound daft. But why not put 2 16/32 side by side and have a man in each.

Local college has that, I quite like the idea, but many scoff and say you need two skilled rather than one and a monkey in a single large parlour!

 

[DairyGrazing]

Might sound daft. But why not put 2 16/32 side by side and have a man in each.

Definitively considering that and a farm with 800 cows has just done the same so will be going to see them.

Downside being milking on your own is miserable. More than once due to emergencies I have milked with someone who has never milked a cow before/little experience/doesn't milk a lot and finished on time. I feel we'd need more experienced people milking more often to staff both the parlours.

 

[DairyGrazing]

3 rotary parlours installed by members of my discussion group. All Milfos/GEA. 40, 50, 54 point. The 40 point has been in longest, 360 cows, one operator , block calved , high output herd.
Auto retention and deck spray on two, I haven’t seen the newest. Would expect help needed(understandably) at calving as they’re all block calvers.
Regarding running costs, I wouldn’t know, @Grassman247 has his finger on that pulse.

Local college has that, I quite like the idea, but many scoff and say you need two skilled rather than one and a monkey in a single large parlour!

Whilst I'm happy to take inspiration from anywhere I need to compare like for like really. We calf all year round and yield 31-34 litres. Everything goes out from now until its too muddy nov/dec. I wouldn't want to milk without ACRs and meters. I wouldn't expect anyone else to either. Need to foam and dip in the summer at the moment. Get away with a lot less in winter.

Another guy in our group has a bigger herd milking in a 32/64 with feeders. Less than 3 hours if I remember but all the milking is done by settled overseas staff.

 

[ollie989898]

If you are already looking at reasons not to have a robot then it probably won't work for you.

 

[betweenthelines]

Why not have an AM shift and a PM shift, perhaps with each "shift" working a 6 on, 1 off or a 6 on 2 off. Perhaps everyone could swap AM/PM every month. People would get to see more of their kids or have more of a social life.

I'd much rather do 6 "normal" shifts on the trot than 5 "long" shifts

 

[DairyGrazing]

If you are already looking at reasons not to have a robot then it probably won't work for you.

It's not fair to say I'm looking for reasons just being realistic to circumstances. Before I came home they were considering putting two in one side of the new shed which has 60ac close by and milk the top cows through it. Take the pressure off the parlour.

 

[DairyGrazing]

Why not have an AM shift and a PM shift, perhaps with each "shift" working a 6 on, 1 off or a 6 on 2 off. Perhaps everyone could swap AM/PM every month. People would get to see more of their kids or have more of a social life.

I'd much rather do 6 "normal" shifts on the trot than 5 "long" shifts

I've done that abroad and didn't like it. Everyone wanted to do the AM and always left too much work for the PM shift. It was hard to manage and caused some resentment. You might say it was down to poor management but we all tried to make it work.

Another farm I didn't manage on had Fri/Sat off one week and Sun/Mon off the next. I'd like to try that in the future.

A neighbour at ther other farm was on 5am 5pm milking split. Full time went home at 4pm. With relief doing the 5pm to 8pm. One person mighy stay until they turned up to hand over if there was alot going on.

 

[betweenthelines]

I'd be tempted to speak to your staff again and see what they each would prefer. Perhaps offer a premium for unpopular shifts

You also need to think outside of the box that is "5 on 2 off"

I've worked with:

4 x 12 hour shifts per week
Rolling 4 on 4 off
4 on 2 off followed by 4 on 1 off
6 on, 1 2 or 3 off
And the killer-weekly rotating 8 hour shifts at 0600, 1400 & 2200!

 

[DairyGrazing]

I'd be tempted to speak to your staff again and see what they each would prefer. Perhaps offer a premium for unpopular shifts

You also need to think outside of the box that is "5 on 2 off"

I've worked with:

4 x 12 hour shifts per week
Rolling 4 on 4 off
4 on 2 off followed by 4 on 1 off
6 on, 1 2 or 3 off
And the killer-weekly rotating 8 hour shifts at 0600, 1400 & 2200!

Yeah we have spoken about doing 4 on 4 off because two part timers drive a lorry 4 days 2 days with us 2 days off. They love it but it suits their personal circumstances.

What is always clear from our guys is that they all want a full regular weekend off for different reasons.

I fell out with the herdsman a couple of years ago and he thought about going to work as an AI tech until he found out the shift patterns! Often hear how they haven't had a weekend off for months.