matthew
Member
- Location
- Cornwall, SW England
That very much depends on whether a pet was 'lost' in the first place.
More welfare nonsense
- Thread starter Walterp
- Start date
That very much depends on whether a pet was 'lost' in the first place.
I've hesitated to get involved in this as I usually suffer from foot in mouth syndrome. But. I milked for many years on the family farm and we shot bull calves regularly. I wasn't in charge, not at all. A teenager more interested in girls and heavy metal but something changed around the late 80s. Before that we raised all calves. It was part of my jobs on the farm and I loved it. Then things got different and suddenly we didn't. It was before we got TB by a long way. Maybe something to do with moving from a Hereford bull to Holstein AI but suddenly we didn't raise bull calves any more. I am short on detail because as I said, I had other things on my mind. But this is where it all went wrong for me. Partly because I thought this was a disgusting practice and Dad wouldn't discuss it at all. Secondly my bedroom window over-looked the cow shed and I had to listen to the lost mothers bellowing for nights on end while their baby lay on the concrete with a tarp over him, waiting for the knacker man to rock up. In fact, I was so horrified that I grew my hair, went veggie and moved out with some bird (she's still here 30 odd years later!). A slight over-reaction maybe but one I am proud of because it did not go down very well at all in our local beef and dairy community. In fact it still makes me chuckle to this day how they all took it. f**k em.
I actually believe that this is the point that Dad starting listening to the fat little f**kers who turn up in their cheap suits and stopped being a farmer and businessman and I think this was the end of the business in many ways. Never mind.
Going back into farming I chose poultry as it's pretty low cost to get into but I hold the same sentiment dear. No male chicks are culled here. They are raised to 18 weeks at least. Is that better? I don't know really. It seems so to me. They get a bit of a life and it's a good one. This is where it all starts getting complicated. Plus, if an egg is hatched in an incubator, there is no mother to pine the lost child. Some would tell me I should let them free into the woods or some such. Some that I should retire 20,000 cockerels onto open pastures to see out their days killing each other in peace. I don't really know. Day old chicks are harmless and have worked bloody hard to get out of their shell. It seems barbaric to just gas or mince them because they are male and 'no use'. Once they get to 5-6 months they are full grown idiots and sympathy is less forthcoming. But is that morally better? Or is it just better because you are eating the bird? So it's useful? Makes no difference to the bird I suppose.
Anyway, back on dairy bulls. Why not just work out how many replacements you need, put your best cows to a dairy bull and the rest to a beef breed? As the chap on Countryfile. I can't really see why we didn't do this as ALL our cows went to dairy AI bulls. We can't have wanted all the heifers as replacements. My conclusion would be that Dad did it to pick out a number of heifers as replacements. The others would be worth more than a beef heifer for sale and the boys were just a waste product so could be binned without looking back.
With my sheep, the best wilts are going to a pure wilt for replacements. The others are going to a Dorset ram for faster growing meat animals. That's my system at the moment and it seems obvious. What is so complicated?
All this ignores TB which I know is a nightmare and we had it too. As I don't really know how that all works, I would not condemn a farmer who is under some sort of restriction.
I actually believe that this is the point that Dad starting listening to the fat little f**kers who turn up in their cheap suits and stopped being a farmer and businessman and I think this was the end of the business in many ways. Never mind.
Going back into farming I chose poultry as it's pretty low cost to get into but I hold the same sentiment dear. No male chicks are culled here. They are raised to 18 weeks at least. Is that better? I don't know really. It seems so to me. They get a bit of a life and it's a good one. This is where it all starts getting complicated. Plus, if an egg is hatched in an incubator, there is no mother to pine the lost child. Some would tell me I should let them free into the woods or some such. Some that I should retire 20,000 cockerels onto open pastures to see out their days killing each other in peace. I don't really know. Day old chicks are harmless and have worked bloody hard to get out of their shell. It seems barbaric to just gas or mince them because they are male and 'no use'. Once they get to 5-6 months they are full grown idiots and sympathy is less forthcoming. But is that morally better? Or is it just better because you are eating the bird? So it's useful? Makes no difference to the bird I suppose.
Anyway, back on dairy bulls. Why not just work out how many replacements you need, put your best cows to a dairy bull and the rest to a beef breed? As the chap on Countryfile. I can't really see why we didn't do this as ALL our cows went to dairy AI bulls. We can't have wanted all the heifers as replacements. My conclusion would be that Dad did it to pick out a number of heifers as replacements. The others would be worth more than a beef heifer for sale and the boys were just a waste product so could be binned without looking back.
With my sheep, the best wilts are going to a pure wilt for replacements. The others are going to a Dorset ram for faster growing meat animals. That's my system at the moment and it seems obvious. What is so complicated?
All this ignores TB which I know is a nightmare and we had it too. As I don't really know how that all works, I would not condemn a farmer who is under some sort of restriction.
llamedos
New Member
Countryfile dairy bull calf controversy – the farmers view.
https://www.farminguk.com/News/Countryfile-dairy-bull-calf-controversy-the-farm-_47221.html
http://www.meadowq.com/News-and-Events/post/dairy-bred-steers-what-is-achievable
https://www.farminguk.com/News/Countryfile-dairy-bull-calf-controversy-the-farm-_47221.html
http://www.meadowq.com/News-and-Events/post/dairy-bred-steers-what-is-achievable
Must have a lot of land to raise that many calves.
Wendy10
Member
- Location
- Carmarthenshire
Latest Dairy News from the National Farm Research Unit
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Over the last year, the National Farm Research Unit has interviewed just under 3,000 UK dairy farmers about what they do with their dairy bull calves. The question we asked them was “What are you doing with your male dairy calves?”
Please note that the overall percentages in both Fig 1. and Fig 2. add up to more than 100% due to some farmers choosing more than one option.
Fig 1. Results showing the future of UK dairy bull calves
What are you doing with your male dairy calves?
Farmers were asked whether they export, cull, sell as stores, sell as calves or finish them on the farm. Results in Fig 1. show that bulls being sold as calves is the most likely outcome, whereas exporting and culling the calves is a less common choice. Sitting in-between these results are being sold as store and finishing on the farm.
Fig 2. Results from dairy farmers with a herd size of less than 99 and more than 100
What are you doing with your male dairy calves?
When looking at the results by herd size, Fig 2. shows that farmers with herd sizes of more than 100 dairy cows sell as calves by 6 percentage points more than farmers with less than 99. Whereas farmers with herd sizes of less than 99 dairy cows sell as stores by a further 8 percentage points than farmers with more than 100.
About the National Farm Research Unit
Established in 1994 in the UK, the National Farm Research Unit is a respected research organisation and is considered an independent authority on farming. We have the largest, comprehensive and most detailed database in the industry and have carried out over 500,000 telephone interviews. We are proud to have built trust and reputation with over 50,000 UK and Irish farmers and communicate regularly with them by telephone, online and face-to-face interviews.
Press Enquiries:
Rachel Watling
Tel: +44 (0)1728 621364
Email: [email protected]
National Farm Research Unit
Deben Mill Business Centre, Old Maltings Approach, Woodbridge IP12 1BL, UK
Just thought I would throw this into the mix. It would seem there are very few bull calves being culled.
There seems to be an underlining theme in the last few months. Spearheaded by Vegans I would assume. And kept alive by some who you would think would know better.
It seems to be aimed at the Dairy industry. I'm sure the rest of us will have our turn!
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Email not displaying correctly? View it in your browser.
Over the last year, the National Farm Research Unit has interviewed just under 3,000 UK dairy farmers about what they do with their dairy bull calves. The question we asked them was “What are you doing with your male dairy calves?”
Please note that the overall percentages in both Fig 1. and Fig 2. add up to more than 100% due to some farmers choosing more than one option.
Fig 1. Results showing the future of UK dairy bull calves
What are you doing with your male dairy calves?
Farmers were asked whether they export, cull, sell as stores, sell as calves or finish them on the farm. Results in Fig 1. show that bulls being sold as calves is the most likely outcome, whereas exporting and culling the calves is a less common choice. Sitting in-between these results are being sold as store and finishing on the farm.
Fig 2. Results from dairy farmers with a herd size of less than 99 and more than 100
What are you doing with your male dairy calves?
When looking at the results by herd size, Fig 2. shows that farmers with herd sizes of more than 100 dairy cows sell as calves by 6 percentage points more than farmers with less than 99. Whereas farmers with herd sizes of less than 99 dairy cows sell as stores by a further 8 percentage points than farmers with more than 100.
About the National Farm Research Unit
Established in 1994 in the UK, the National Farm Research Unit is a respected research organisation and is considered an independent authority on farming. We have the largest, comprehensive and most detailed database in the industry and have carried out over 500,000 telephone interviews. We are proud to have built trust and reputation with over 50,000 UK and Irish farmers and communicate regularly with them by telephone, online and face-to-face interviews.
Press Enquiries:
Rachel Watling
Tel: +44 (0)1728 621364
Email: [email protected]
National Farm Research Unit
Deben Mill Business Centre, Old Maltings Approach, Woodbridge IP12 1BL, UK
Just thought I would throw this into the mix. It would seem there are very few bull calves being culled.
There seems to be an underlining theme in the last few months. Spearheaded by Vegans I would assume. And kept alive by some who you would think would know better.
It seems to be aimed at the Dairy industry. I'm sure the rest of us will have our turn!
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matthew
Member
- Location
- Cornwall, SW England
Look at just what a brilliant job governments of all colours gave done to our industry.
http://bovinetb.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/european-food-standards-agency-comments.html
http://bovinetb.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/european-food-standards-agency-comments.html
spot bloody on 1000 "likes" would not be enough
Princess Pooper
Member
- Location
- East Mids
This is the bit that I don't understand. Our calves are taken from the cow within 12 hours and from a heifer within 24. Nearly all are good, maternal animals that have licked and loved the calf and make all the right Mumsey humming moo-ey noises. But when we take the calf the cow hardly ever bawls. and the calves are well fed (between 5 and 8 litres /head/day as soon as they will take it, which is usually within a couple of days) so other than when they hear me nearby close to feeding time, they never bawl either. If they bawl then occasionally they might set a cow off, but this bawling all night that one hears about so often just doesn't happen here. Our bedroom is 50m from the sheds too so it's not that we are just not hearing it. I think the longer you leave them together the greater the trauma at separation - just look at sucklers and weaning lambs (now that DOES wake us up at night!).
Anyway, just waiting for colostrum to defrost for latest arrival. Calving since 5 August, 17 heifers and one bull (who will be sold, not shot). Sexed semen, then swap to beef (in the cows), then sweep with beef bull once he has finished in the heifers.
Maybe that's where we went wrong. Should have put them in a crush and just convinced them they had just had a big dump. Pull the calf out, drag it away and shoot it before the mother gets to even see it. That seems the perfect answer. How very efficient.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Woolgatherer
Member
- Location
- Angus
Wendy10
Member
- Location
- Carmarthenshire
Have you read @Princess Pooper s post that you are quoting?
that's not what she said
when we were dairy farming we would take the calf away at the next milking after they were born and put it in with some others, milk the cow and feed the calf its own mothers milk, it was a few years ago now but I don't recall any bawling, as I said earlier in the thread we never shot a calf even when they were worth less than the ear tag [BSE era] we would still do all we could to make them live and look after them
matthew
Member
- Location
- Cornwall, SW England
Crass. As @Henarar said, that was not the message. It was not our experience with dairy cows / calves either.
Perhaps you'd like another chip, for your other shoulder?
best cut a king Edward spud in half thenIt is important to be balanced
- Location
- South Molton
Perhaps if you had looked at it in a more business mind then maybe you still maybe dairy farming?