More welfare nonsense

[Kiwi Pete]

Sorry, it was a poor attempt at humour. . I will delete it if requested. My apologies.

I laughed possibly a little too much at it - I wasn't really saying you had a attitude - just Pasty being Pasty really...

 

[Pasty]

The FG selected a letter from Mr Oliver Wood of Inkberrow as its lead item (Letters to the Editor 17.08.17), under the heading 'Farming Must Change Its Image'.

Mr Wood is a retired dairy farmer who, by accident, got involved in an animal rights roadshow recently. He describes how well-organised it was, with video expositions on loop showing hi-tech automated gas chambers killing unwanted chicks (Neil can guess what associations I make from that) and a cow searching desperately for its calf, after having it removed straight after calving.

Undeniably high impact stuff.

Dairy farmers suffering from cash-induced myopia on this subject might be interested to learn that our Minister, Michael Gove, is firmly on the side of increasing the rights of all sentient animals.

Social attitudes are changing, especially in a UK that may in the near future become detached from a mainland Europe markedly less sentimental about animals. Unintended Consequence abound: if Mr Gove is to be believed - and that's an entire thread on its own - DEFRA plans to establish higher welfare and environmental standards than the EU. [Laugh? I nearly fell over].

Dairy farmers have already lost the argument on shooting baby calves - saying 'there is no alternative' is just a mealy-mouthed way of saying 'but the alternative might cost me money...' This is not a sure-fire way to win the argument, but is a sure-fire way to lose it: shortsighted and greedy is the inevitable conclusion that the dispassionate observer would draw - and activists are, naturally, seldom dispassionate.

So, having lost that argument, what's next?

Chicks? Separating baby calves from their dam? Cameras in abattoirs?

My neighbour is a serious poultry guy. He brings in chicks from the EU for sale as POL hens here in the UK although bird flu is causing problems with all that. Essentially he can sell you a 'breed' like a Light Sussex which is nothing of the sort and they call them 'Light Sussex Hybrids', the point being that it will be a highly productive little hen and looks like a Light Sussex. Will lay 300 eggs for years and then prolapse or just die of something else. Very nice. The further point being that there will be some way in the hatching of these birds to tell which is male and which is female as soon as they pop out. It may be feather colour or it may just be feather shape or whatever but these folk have got this down to an art. I can hatch from my Light Sussex flock and it'll be at least 4 weeks or more before I can start guessing a the gender. But these guys with their 'Sussex'...boom.

But I've known this for a long time and what I found interesting is that he stopped the other day and we had a chat as I was attempting to stop my mower from going on fire and he said that this is becoming a huge issue in the EU. A 'welfare issue' he called it. So now they are desperately trying to find genetics to make boy chicks worth raising. I suspect that pretty soon, the practice of culling day old male chicks will start to be outlawed across the EU.

 

[RedMerle]

I didn't watch Countryfile.

My opinion is that shooting dairy calves plays right into the hands of organisations like PETA and vegans. Like it or not public perception does matter in business.

I had an argument the other day with an old Shepherd who told me that old shepherds used to line their young bitches to ensure they could get in pup later and it would calm them down. More often than not they would drown the unwanted puppies.

I'm not sure shooting Bull calves is much different.

 

[Greenbeast]

I suspect that pretty soon, the practice of culling day old male chicks will start to be outlawed across the EU.

I wonder how this affects the exotic pet food market, as the owner of a Raven, Harris Hawk, Crow, Jackdaw and a snake.....

 

[llamedos]

I wonder how this affects the exotic pet food market, as the owner of a Raven, Harris Hawk, Crow, Jackdaw and a snake.....

If Peta have their way, no one will have pets.

 

[roscoe erf]

I didn't watch Countryfile.

My opinion is that shooting dairy calves plays right into the hands of organisations like PETA and vegans. Like it or not public perception does matter in business.

I had an argument the other day with an old Shepherd who told me that old shepherds used to line their young bitches to ensure they could get in pup later and it would calm them down. More often than not they would drown the unwanted puppies.

I'm not sure shooting Bull calves is much different.

PETA won't mind they practice the destruction of un wanted animals oh and joe publics wanted pets

 

[glasshouse]

Perhaps if you had looked at it in a more business mind then maybe you still maybe dairy farming?

That is below the belt.
The truth is, if every farmer had no feelings for animals or the land and treated it just as a business, there would be no farmers at all.

 

[Sid]

That is below the belt.
The truth is, if every farmer had no feelings for animals or the land and treated it just as a business, there would be no farmers at all.

Rubbish

 

[glasshouse]

Rubbish

go feck

 

[Old Boar]

I did not climb to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian...

 

[Pasty]

I wonder how this affects the exotic pet food market, as the owner of a Raven, Harris Hawk, Crow, Jackdaw and a snake.....

I suspect you could hatch your own? I do believe that it remains a 'legit' reason to kill an animal. I think Germany are getting pretty tough on this area but I'm not really up on it.

 

[Sid]

That is below the belt.
The truth is, if every farmer had no feelings for animals or the land and treated it just as a business, there would be no farmers at all.

Farming is a risk business. You have to manage the risk v the reward.

Treating a 12th calver as opposed to a 1st calver you would put more effort and investment into the latter. Thats being business minded.

So im guessing you try and save every single lamb calf piglet chick born. Whether they are profitable or not if you have feelings?

Or are your feelings variable on the cost and profitability?

If its the first you won't be farming for long!

 

[borderterribles]

I suggest that 'a bloody good war' has sorted out mainland Europe's attitudes towards its animals (and a lot of other things).

That's kinda the point.

It is exactly the point. Even during the last unpleasantness, NOBODY starved in this country, unlike parts of mainland Europe. I am sure that this has caused a large part of the difference in attitudes to farmed animals welfare, both here in the UK and on the continent.

 

[Henarar]

That is below the belt.

It could have been taken as such sid is not my biggest fan
there were a few reasons to stop milking cows at the time apart from what happened to dad, I was never that in to milking cows and I think you have to be to do the job properly, we only had 35 cows and an old bail to milk them in, we sold any of the milk plant that had any value and got about 200 quid for it so that gives you an idea that it was at the end of its life

 

[beefandsleep]

Perhaps if you had looked at it in a more business mind then maybe you still maybe dairy farming?

You don't have to be lacking a business mind to come to the conclusion that there is more to farming (and life) than milking cows.

 

[glasshouse]

It could have been taken as such sid is not my biggest fan
there were a few reasons to stop milking cows at the time apart from what happened to dad, I was never that in to milking cows and I think you have to be to do the job properly, we only had 35 cows and an old bail to milk them in, we sold any of the milk plant that had any value and got about 200 quid for it so that gives you an idea that it was at the end of its life

I saw an article last wk about two young lads starting out and milking in a bail.
You were ahead of your time!

 

[Henarar]

I saw an article last wk about two young lads starting out and milking in a bail.
You were ahead of your time!

We still have it if it has a value LOL we use it to edge a yard
We used it 25 years and it was bought second hand so can't moan

 

[DrWazzock]

Start down the humanising of animals route and you will end up killing no animals at all, other than those that need euthanising for welfare reasons and are by then completely unfit for human consumption.

 

[Walterp]

Start down the humanising of animals route and you will end up killing no animals at all, other than those that need euthanising for welfare reasons and are by then completely unfit for human consumption.

How do you reconcile that (logically attractive) proposition with the enduring popularity of anthropomorphism in literature (from Rupert the Bear and Wind in the Willows to Shrek and the animal and insect heroes of nearly every Disney film ever made) among readers and viewers happily munching on a ham sandwich whilst consuming such fare?

The best explanation I have seen is from a foreword to 'Edwardian Farming' - "we give our animals a decent life, and they give us themselves."

 

[Poorbuthappy]

How do you reconcile that (logically attractive) proposition with the enduring popularity of anthropomorphism in literature (from Rupert the Bear and Wind in the Willows to Shrek and the animal and insect heroes of nearly every Disney film ever made) among readers and viewers happily munching on a ham sandwich whilst consuming such fare?

The best explanation I have seen is from a foreword to 'Edwardian Farming' - "we give our animals a decent life, and they give us themselves."

Also known as 'having your cake and eating it'