Mowing before/after rotaional grazing.

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
See a lot of your weed problems start with the soil condition. So thistles and other unpalatable plants are really just like billboards saying "hey! this soil is poor and/or mismanaged" as they tend to grow in poor or dried out soils.
Usually a symptom of poor calcium/silica cycling - they love lime every year especially if the grass is kept well pruned through the growing season.

That's the main reason they are a big part of our landscape in NZ - short rotation bordering on overgrazing, lime + TSP diet. Grass doesn't need to grow deep roots if you feed from the top, and anything that goes below the root zone feeds the thistles (other than the compactiom issue it's trying to remediate)

In a damp climate, growing deep-rooted species may or may not work, more a tactic for dryland farming when moisture in the profile is a limiting factor
 

Green farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Would the fact I'm a sheep only farm have anything got to do with it ? With grass grazed to a lower height with maybe shallower root systems versus beef or dairy farms where grass never gets grazed as low ?
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Would the fact I'm a sheep only farm have anything got to do with it ? With grass grazed to a lower height with maybe shallower root systems versus beef or dairy farms where grass never gets grazed as low ?
Possibly.
You can still get quite decent root mass/depth with sheep grazing, but then your thistle rhizome may be 18 inches avg depth? It's hard to deplete it enough with a mower in the summertime.

What we have found is to use high-density grazing when most people are set-stocked for lambing gives them a good fright, and then maybe tidy up patches when they are just in that purple budding stage - the plant has put all its energy into the tops, whack it off or brutalise it with cattle and the root is weakened. Especially if you get on them in the rain.

One of the major problems with 'the mower fix' is permanent fencelines etc - as the plant keeps enough greenery to support itself regardless of what you do with the 95%
 

Generally01

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Livestock Farmer
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Since when is topping once a year 'constantly' ?
and What exactly do you suggest? :unsure: maybe a herbicide ? or would that be another temporary fix, I know , how about grubbing out the hedgerows :unsure: as that's a good source of blackthorn ....hmm, now I'm not a fan of it but it's a common native favoured by hedgerow birds for nesting etc etc....and also crucially..... its not allowed to remove hedges anyway. :rolleyes:(y)

and I like them as they define our beautiful landscape .:love:
What i mean by constantly is, what would happen if you didn't top it for one year?

Blackthorn grow well in dappled or partial shade or full sun. They can grow in light, medium or heavy soils though they prefer it to be moist but well-draining. Almost all soil pH levels, except acid peats, are fine, these plants
can even grow in very alkaline soils and maritime conditions.

What opposing forage do you have as an opponent to blackthorn?

What kind of soil do you have?

I would not advise weedkiller in any condition it does more harm than good, as it kills the soil to kill the plants.

And the seeds are very likely not your problem, your soil likely has millions of seeds in it especially if this plant has been in your area for any length of time(century) .
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
wow yes a century that is a long time :hilarious:

and well dang rabbit, how come i hadn't thought of that... fields full of blackthorn brilliant...(y):eek:

Now please, don't reply as i'm off to lie down quietly, in a darkened (padded ) room 🤪
 

Generally01

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Livestock Farmer
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wow yes a century that is a long time :hilarious:

and well dang rabbit, how come i hadn't thought of that... fields full of blackthorn brilliant...(y):eek:

Now please, don't reply as i'm off to lie down quietly, in a darkened (padded ) room 🤪
We have a lot of so called invasive plants over here in the U.S. that were imported from various areas in the world, some very recently so our soils realy haven't got very many of their seeds in them yet, and just stopping the seeds from spreading is more of a solution, but if a plant has been growing in area for any length of time, your soil will already have a lot of seeds in it.

You would have more luck making a soil condition in which it will not sprout or grow. by this i do not mean desert!

Where i live we don't have a blackthorn problem, but it sounds like a near relative of a tree that i would encourage the use of a chainsaw. :)
 

Generally01

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Livestock Farmer
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A biannual top is not too constantly I think. I'm all ears about a 'different method'.
No it isn't constantly. And i think there was a slight misunderstanding on my part as to what he was preventing with his toping.

Depending on the forage/soil quality of the area you are trying to improve with rotational grazing, you may be able to speed the process up, but once you have a solid forage growth of the less menacing forage (i prefer a good stand of Kentucky 31 tall Fescue, orchard grass, timothy, and some legumes) then a few annual weeds shouldn't be a problem, chances that the cattle will trample are large, and even if they don't the weeds will die every fall. and don't forget the most common reason that they grow in the first place is when the soil is bare.

But stuff like a tree still has a hard time growing where the soil is always covered with a nice stand of forage and cattle trampling over the whole area(young trees and bushes take trampling a lot worst than most grasses.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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