Mowing before/after rotaional grazing.

[Generally01]

I've been wondering how many other people have the same ideas as to whether or not you should mow in a rotational grazing system as I do?

I should propably clarify that the type of mowing i am refering to is the mowing most people do to keep brush and invasive species down.

I think if you have to mow you're livestock is being mismanaged as in not grazing hard enough or grazing to hard and having to wait to long to regraze thus creating bare soil and allowing invasive species to take over.

This a big subject/problem for me and i was wanting to see what some of ya'll though.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Used to do it, depends muchly on the quality of the grass as to how well premowing works.
Keeps the gear cleaner than mowing after, but if the quality is dropping for dairy cows, it means they cannot select the best and leave the rest. If quality is good, then it merely masks a management symptom.
Also a surefire way to set up for drought, which is why I put a nail in it 10 years ago; ust a needless cost compared to giving them their allocation in parts with an electric fence, which is really why people do it.

I have mowed 1 or 2% of our area in the past 2 years, mainly just chunks of spreading thistle, because mowing=docks

 

[Generally01]

Thanks! Very few people realize how much mowing can be like a wrench in the gears.

I have found if you mow after cattle you lose as much as half your grazing time on that area. As it tends to dry out the soil from lack of protection.

 

[Bury the Trash]

if you mow try to keep a decent stubble length, 75-100mm.

a lot of our fields have 360 * hawthorn hedges that sucker way out into the field if not cut down every now and then . stock dont stop them im afraid.

 

[Generally01]

if you mow try to keep a decent stubble length, 75-100mm.

a lot of our fields have 360 * hawthorn hedges that sucker way out into the field if not cut down every now and then . stock dont stop them im afraid.

What stock are you refering to? cows might not eat them but goats and sheep or pigs etc may think them to be delicious.

 

[Bury the Trash]

yea delicious

oops wrong pic..


try this one ...

sure, i guess yum yum for wood boring beetles or some bug maybe...




but remember guys, yer only ever one click away from complete bull. s.hit...

 

[som farmer]

we use the mower, set high, when cows are leaving to much, around the sh1t pats, works a treat, if nice weather, cows love it, but wet, not so good, but gives the ley, a good tidy up, and boost. If you use a topper, all you do, is suppress growth, leave a shitty mess, but it does look tidy from a distance !

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Thanks! Very few people realize how much mowing can be like a wrench in the gears.

I have found if you mow after cattle you lose as much as half your grazing time on that area. As it tends to dry out the soil from lack of protection.

The resultant forage is then often lacking in fibre and requires forcing with Nitrogen fertiliser - and hello mastitis, laminitis, bloat, liver damage.....

but it looks lovely

 

[Generally01]

yea delicious
View attachment 909251

oops wrong pic..


try this one ...View attachment 909252
sure, i guess yum yum for wood boring beetles or some bug maybe...




but remember guys, yer only ever one click away from complete bull. s.hit...

I don't have a hawthorn hedge problem I'm afraid, but does mowing really help? Most people mow the grass down to almost nothin' and that allows everything and anything to grow and lets some plants even seem invasive whereas if have a good stockpile of the better grass (perennial) it should with proper rotation choke out most anything unwanted.

 

[som farmer]

we find is, mid season high trim, if sunny = nearly hay, and cows love it. I think it re-sets the ley, cows are programmed, by nature, not to graze around cow pats, presumably, a 'natural' way to reduce worm infestation, once cut, they love it. And the re-growth, is better, and fresher.

 

[Iogijones]

Been doing post mowing for a few years but only if not properly grazed enough as when i grazed too hard milk will go down and the plus side you flatten the cow sh!t so it goes to the soil quicker.

 

[Generally01]

we find is, mid season high trim, if sunny = nearly hay, and cows love it. I think it re-sets the ley, cows are programmed, by nature, not to graze around cow pats, presumably, a 'natural' way to reduce worm infestation, once cut, they love it. And the re-growth, is better, and fresher.

So does the cutting make so it is no longer a danger of worms in eating it?

I thought they didn't eat the grass around cow pies because of a bad taste the grass had, this being because I use to keep our cows in a barn in th winter and i would continuously muck it out onto a pile cross then in the spring i would take it in clumps and spread it on the pasture, the grass grew rather nicely but the cows only ate the very tops of it even when pushed to eat it.
But after a few rotations they are totally fine with eating the grass on that area.

But wouldn't (being as it is such a small area) it be best just to let them trample that grass, as trampled grass has almost as many or more benefits as consumed grass.

 

[Generally01]

Been doing post mowing for a few years but only if not properly grazed enough as when i grazed too hard milk will go down and the plus side you flatten the cow sh!t so it goes to the soil quicker.

Do you go by the "if i can't graze it all make sure it's largely trampled" theory?

For the best results I've heard a 3rd trampled, a 3rd consumed, and a 3rd standing.

if not enough is being trampled make your pens smaller and move your cows oftener.

also how do you flatten out cow sh!t?

I'm not trying to be harsh, just curious.

 

[som farmer]

So does the cutting make so it is no longer a danger of worms in eating it?

I thought they didn't eat the grass around cow pies because of a bad taste the grass had, this being because I use to keep our cows in a barn in th winter and i would continuously muck it out onto a pile cross then in the spring i would take it in clumps and spread it on the pasture, the grass grew rather nicely but the cows only ate the very tops of it even when pushed to eat it.
But after a few rotations they are totally fine with eating the grass on that area.

But wouldn't (being as it is such a small area) it be best just to let them trample that grass, as trampled grass has almost as many or more benefits as consumed grass.

if sunny, makes a lovely bit of hay, in a day, so could well be sheer greed, but, whatever, its gives the paddocks a good boost. I was always told, the annual movements of wild animals, was down to, moving continuously to fresh grazing, and to reduce worm burden, by not overgrazing in one place, whether right, or not, seems plausible. Sheep will graze tight behind cattle, and vice versus, if we can't avoid that, the wormers appear.

 

[Iogijones]

Do you go by the "if i can't graze it all make sure it's largely trampled" theory?

For the best results I've heard a 3rd trampled, a 3rd consumed, and a 3rd standing.

if not enough is being trampled make your pens smaller and move your cows oftener.

also how do you flatten out cow sh!t?

I'm not trying to be harsh, just curious.

The mower will flatten the cow sh!t

 

[SteveHants]

Depends. Apparently mowing is quite good for getting rid of annual weeds.

 

[Bury the Trash]

I don't have a hawthorn hedge problem I'm afraid, but does mowing really help? Most people mow the grass down to almost nothin' and that allows everything and anything to grow and lets some plants even seem invasive whereas if have a good stockpile of the better grass (perennial) it should with proper rotation choke out most anything unwanted.

Invasive weeds that are pretty much unpalatable unless stock are ravenous so to speak are not what I require for my stock at least.ticks on long grass can be very problematic also for man and beast.
Trouble is here there are people these days who want to increase wild flora (and fauna) be they good or bad for the local economy.
Having said that, I do however, live and work in a managed conservation area and I am mindful of that as any ont with a conscience would be. Theres a bit of money in that as well and I would like to have a say in the ways and wherefore s ....my opinion being based on many yrs of land management in the area and with a view also from being abroad in a travel type situation, something that I have been very privileged to have done.

Grazing with sheep is what i refer to personally
and me with mowing , well pretty much the only time I actually mow is when we go to make hay for winter feed, for me to rely on growing fodder in january with 7 and bit hrs of daylight days plus thd possibility of frost snow or continuous rain, then well I'm afraid I like to have something in store in the dry, so I can sleep at night.
Many, many yrs ago I was advised that longevity of a healthy sward relied on not overgrazin and also not under grazing, as yet I havnt seen any evidence to dispel that.

If we leave very long grass from now until the spring without shearing it well at or near the base of the plant, then what happens is that that plant does not 'leap' away with new green growth as well in the spring and that plant can actually be killed back by rotting in wet and frost, hence then needing new seeds to be replaced or poorer from a production point of view for spring / summer lambs weed type grasses and broad leaves.

This is is Just what I find here its allowed to be different by others and elsewhere

 

[Generally01]

Invasive weeds that are pretty much unpalatable unless stock are ravenous so to speak are not what I require for my stock at least.ticks on long grass can be very problematic also for man and beast.
Trouble is here there are people these days who want to increase wild flora (and fauna) be they good or bad for the local economy.
Having said that, I do however, live and work in a managed conservation area and I am mindful of that as any ont with a conscience would be. Theres a bit of money in that as well and I would like to have a say in the ways and wherefore s ....my opinion being based on many yrs of land management in the area and with a view also from being abroad in a travel type situation, something that I have been very privileged to have done.

Grazing with sheep is what i refer to personally
and me with mowing , well pretty much the only time I actually mow is when we go to make hay for winter feed, for me to rely on growing fodder in january with 7 and bit hrs of daylight days plus thd possibility of frost snow or continuous rain, then well I'm afraid I like to have something in store in the dry, so I can sleep at night.
Many, many yrs ago I was advised that longevity of a healthy sward relied on not overgrazin and also not under grazing, as yet I havnt seen any evidence to dispel that.

If we leave very long grass from now until the spring without shearing it well at or near the base of the plant, then what happens is that that plant does not 'leap' away with new green growth as well in the spring and that plant can actually be killed back by rotting in wet and frost, hence then needing new seeds to be replaced or poorer from a production point of view for spring / summer lambs weed type grasses and broad leaves.

This is is Just what I find here its allowed to be different by others and elsewhere

Mowing does have its place in the system.
So many times though i see it being very misused, I know a guy who believes that the only way to avoid having everything grow up on brush is to keep everything mowed about and inch off the ground from the hottest part of the summer untill it is winter.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Mowing does have its place in the system.
So many times though i see it being very misused, I know a guy who believes that the only way to avoid having everything grow up on brush is to keep everything mowed about and inch off the ground from the hottest part of the summer untill it is winter.

yes i do know what you mean.
and actually i do have a few areas that are,shall we say looking a little untidy atm.
they will keep for winter use with a front and back fence

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Invasive weeds that are pretty much unpalatable unless stock are ravenous so to speak are not what I require for my stock at least.ticks on long grass can be very problematic also for man and beast.
Trouble is here there are people these days who want to increase wild flora (and fauna) be they good or bad for the local economy.
Having said that, I do however, live and work in a managed conservation area and I am mindful of that as any ont with a conscience would be. Theres a bit of money in that as well and I would like to have a say in the ways and wherefore s ....my opinion being based on many yrs of land management in the area and with a view also from being abroad in a travel type situation, something that I have been very privileged to have done.

Grazing with sheep is what i refer to personally
and me with mowing , well pretty much the only time I actually mow is when we go to make hay for winter feed, for me to rely on growing fodder in january with 7 and bit hrs of daylight days plus thd possibility of frost snow or continuous rain, then well I'm afraid I like to have something in store in the dry, so I can sleep at night.
Many, many yrs ago I was advised that longevity of a healthy sward relied on not overgrazin and also not under grazing, as yet I havnt seen any evidence to dispel that.

If we leave very long grass from now until the spring without shearing it well at or near the base of the plant, then what happens is that that plant does not 'leap' away with new green growth as well in the spring and that plant can actually be killed back by rotting in wet and frost, hence then needing new seeds to be replaced or poorer from a production point of view for spring / summer lambs weed type grasses and broad leaves.

This is is Just what I find here its allowed to be different by others and elsewhere

I wouldn't be without a mob of sheep - well, I would be,, but not forever. Generally the farms around here who top twice are either purely extensive cattle, or extensive sheep - it's 'a catchup option' due to long periods of set-stocking at parturition.

Selective grazing is the underlying issue - most of our soil seedbanks are full of "weed grasses" which really only become weeds when this type of management is repeated annually; if kept vegetative then they stay really productive, which is why they were sown in the first place.
If not, they bolt to seed early on and add to the seedbank, while the "productive" species are denied a chance to do so, and diminish over time - that's really why we don't top.
Our non-selective intensive grazing is much closer to what the old boys did on horseback, when our little farms were 40,000 acre runs, which suits these pasture types.
In effect, ryegrass becomes the weed because of their suppressive effect while in the reproductive phase, on the other species present