My Beeswax Dyson Farming and Bailey trailers trip.

[hally]

Does anybody really think that tax payers would be comfortable with their hard earned cash being donated to multi millionaire land owners to enhance their business empires. People are losing sight to why farm subsidies were originally put in place and stating this as Ollie has done has got nothing to do with envy.

 

[Phil P]

Does anybody really think that tax payers would be comfortable with their hard earned cash being donated to multi millionaire land owners to enhance their business empires. People are losing sight to why farm subsidies were originally put in place and stating this as Ollie has done has got nothing to do with envy.

I’m sure the £127,000,000 in tax that Mr Dyson paid in one year alone will more than cover his sfp payment!
Good luck to the guy, he got off his arse and made his own fortune, and I’m sure he puts more into this country than any of haters!

 

[Cuthbert]

I’m sure the £127,000,000 in tax that Mr Dyson paid in one year alone will more than cover his sfp payment!
Good luck the guy, he got off his arse and made his own fortune, and I’m sure he puts more into this country than any of haters!

All put together

 

[ollie989898]

I don't care who owns the land or how much tax they have paid as part of their other activities- that is irrelevant.

The bloke is using a tax loop hole designed to help family farms. He will neatly avoid many millions of pounds worth of tax liability in inheritance tax using a loophole unavailable to the general public. Furthermore, that money he has used to do it is from somewhere other than agriculture, so he is not abiding by the spirit of the law for the reasons it was drawn up in the first place- which was to protect the likes of all of you from being hit by debilitating amounts of tax through no fault of your own.

Using agriculture as a way of avoiding inheritance tax is wrong, its as simple as that. I would point out I am not particularly in favour of inheritance tax per se, but I dislike people the rules surrounding it anyway. Why the hell should Dyson, whose fortune was generated outside of farming, be allowed to take advantages of laws designed to aid those who made their fortunes from it?

Subsidies are a separate issue altogether and have no place here. No farm should be receiving so much as a pound in subsidy and I consistently said that for years.

I will reiterate for the hard of hearing: you cannot complain about low returns, ridiculous rents or ridiculous land values in one breath (this same complaint is made again and again and again on this very forum) then state that it is AOK for Dyson or some Chinese business man to sink millions of pounds into agriculture because it takes advantage of a tax loophole. Don't you see one is inextricably linked to the other?

People doing the above completely scupper the game for all involved and by extension, I am talking about the vast majority of the active farmers on this forum. It's bad for the industry as a whole and quite rightly, the government needs to crack down on exactly this kind of dodge used by businesses and individuals alike.

I don't care how many millions he spends on concrete, metal, machinery or Volvo loading shovels, I would be happier if he just paid the necessary amount of inheritance tax that an average man on the street would incur, after all, all that profit was made on the backs of the UK public to begin with.

Too many people are blinded by concrete or shiny metal to to realise the realities of what is going on here.

 

[Deutzdx3]

I watched a programme on dyson a few years ago. When he was touting round shows pushing his vacuum as the next best thing being bagless, he was on the bare bones of his ass. Not far away from having his then house repossessed I believe. People laughed at him because it didn’t have a bag. I’m neither for nor against him for what he has done. But to be buying land and keeping it with in the uk can’t be a bad thing. Put his tax situation aside, he is doing things to encourage engineering when it’s a taboo thing to get into. He has opened his own university in the uk to encourage people to go into engineering instead of data programming. Hats off to him even though he is bit of a kn@b. [emoji23]

 

[Spudmaster]

The bloke is using a tax loop hole designed to help family farms. He will neatly avoid many millions of pounds worth of tax liability in inheritance tax using a loophole unavailable to the general public. Furthermore, that money he has used to do it is from somewhere other than agriculture, so he is not abiding by the spirit of the law for the reasons it was drawn up in the first place- which was to protect the likes of all of you from being hit by debilitating amounts of tax through no fault of your own.


I do not post very often... but I really do enjoy the debate on this site... Most of which is well-rounded, relevant and generally harmless.....
However... You are basically stating above that as family farmers, you are entitled to an incredibly generous form of inheritance tax relief- and how dare anybody else be entitled to enjoy such privelege!

I would be happier if he just paid the necessary amount of inheritance tax that an average man on the street would incur,

You then go on to say the above. This is the same inheritance tax that you, by your own admission, are exempt from....

Clearly you occupy a station of self entitlement that is elevated on some moral plain well above the average man, and even above Mr Dyson who has contributed so much for this country!!!
Fair play to the man, he is buying land; farming it properly as a business; and in time his heirs will benefit from the IHT tax system. Ie he has worked bl**dy hard and contributed 10s if not hundreds of millions along the way. In doing so, he has purchased land to farm - effectively earning the right to this benefit of IHT exemption for future inheritance. How does this differ from you- or did you inherit your land- i.e. benefitting from the system that you so vehemently protect?

Just a question...???

 

[ollie989898]

I give up.

I can't make this any simpler.

Inheritance tax relief is designed to help farmers avoid a massive tax liability through no fault of their own other than owning an asset like land which increases in value over time. It was recognised that families were being sunk by the need to pay huge amounts of tax when people died. This is the crux of it: farming families who worked all their lives could be shafted by the need to pay huge reams of tax on assets they were basically born with.

It is not a scheme designed to let millionaires hide money from the tax man. He is not following the spirit the law was written in.

 

[Phil P]

I give up.

I can't make this any simpler.

Inheritance tax relief is designed to help farmers avoid a massive tax liability through no fault of their own other than owning an asset like land which increases in value over time. It was recognised that families were being sunk by the need to pay huge amounts of tax when people died. This is the crux of it: farming families who worked all their lives could be shafted by the need to pay huge reams of tax on assets they were basically born with.

It is not a scheme designed to let millionaires hide money from the tax man. He is not following the spirit the law was written in.

So basically what your saying is only people born into farming should be aloud to buy farm land

 

[ollie989898]

I give up. Fudge it.

 

[Steevo]

I don't care how many millions he spends on concrete, metal, machinery or Volvo loading shovels, I would be happier if he just paid the necessary amount of inheritance tax that an average man on the street would incur, after all, all that profit was made on the backs of the UK public to begin with.

Well made comments!

Added side note: Had he kept the money within his business he would be able to take advantage of business property relief on it all too....it's not just an "agriculture thing" but designed to keep the whole economy rolling over.

Had he put it into mansions or such, then (unless gifted before) he would be liable for the amount of inheritance tax.


Doubling back slightly - I admire him for farming it himself. Clarkson (and others) have bought land and I believe don't farm it themselves....investing like this to avoid IHT is where things really go wrong for agriculture I think.

 

[Steevo]

So basically what your saying is only people born into farming should be aloud to buy farm land

I think it's more that farmland is an obvious and well known loophole for many to hide money from tax and is disrupting the agriculture industry.

If bungalows were suddenly given 100% IHT relief......but not houses....it would distort the bungalow market and bungalows then become an investment vehicle, rather than their purpose being a place to live for those who can't use stairs.

 

[Phil P]

I think it's more that farmland is an obvious and well known loophole for many to hide money from tax and is disrupting the agriculture industry.

If bungalows were suddenly given 100% IHT relief......but not houses....it would distort the bungalow market and bungalows then become an investment vehicle, rather than their purpose being a place to live for those who can't use stairs.

Thing is, unlike those who just invest as a tax dodge he’s investing in farming for the future (they have a 100 year business plan!) and he takes an active role in the running of the estates. Which is a hell of a lot more than most firms using land as a tax dodge!
He’s also renovating property on his estates (which would have otherwise gone to ruin) in order to create homes and new business properties for locals.
I think a lot of people must think he’s going round buying up 10 and 20 acres here and there pushing up land prices for everyone!

 

[Steevo]

Thing is, unlike those who just invest as a tax dodge he’s investing in farming for the future (they have a 100 year business plan!) and he takes an active role in the running of the estates. Which is a hell of a lot more than most firms using land as a tax dodge!
He’s also renovating property on his estates (which would have otherwise gone to ruin) in order to create homes and new business properties for locals.
I think a lot of people must think he’s going round buying up 10 and 20 acres here and there pushing up land prices for everyone!

Totally agree! Hence my earlier post:

Doubling back slightly - I admire him for farming it himself. Clarkson (and others) have bought land and I believe don't farm it themselves....investing like this to avoid IHT is where things really go wrong for agriculture I think.

 

[Honest john]

Great Thread.

 

[Phil P]

Great Thread.

Thank you ?

 

[Gerbert]

I also like it phil, very interesting.

 

[Hampton]

We passed the original site coming up the driveway, all the buildings and infrastructure pictured are new since the estate was purchased.
The manager who was there under the old management said before Dyson took over the estate was farmed purely with profits in mind. Now the main focus is environmental and improving soil structure and wildlife habitat, a lot of fields have margins even though they aren’t in a scheme. There’s also a massive drainage and ditch management scheme been implemented, and you’ve probably heard about the dry stone wall and hedge programs that are running.

I understand what you are saying and it is very credible and impressive.
However, let’s take another estate of similar size, also owned by one man and compare it with Beeswax... Prince Charles’ Duchy estates, with their dozens of tenants, focus on environmental issues and community investment both in terms of bringing communities together and also estate branding is far more impressive in my eyes.
Both estates are commercial, but the Duchy supports far more families and communities than Beeswax.

 

[Phil P]

I understand what you are saying and it is very credible and impressive.
However, let’s take another estate of similar size, also owned by one man and compare it with Beeswax... Prince Charles’ Duchy estates, with their dozens of tenants, focus on environmental issues and community investment both in terms of bringing communities together and also estate branding is far more impressive in my eyes.
Both estates are commercial, but the Duchy supports far more families and communities than Beeswax.

I’m not denying it, there’s a lot of big estates and farms that have never got enough land, they buy or rent everything that becomes available despite having 1000’s of acres anyway. This just removes opportunities for smaller and new entry farmers! But that’s just the way it is.

 

[Hampton]

I’m not denying it, there’s a lot of big estates and farms that have never got enough land, they buy or rent everything that becomes available despite having 1000’s of acres anyway. This just removes opportunities for smaller and new entry farmers! But that’s just the way it is.

True, I was merely clumsily making the point that I would find it far more impressive if Dyson had set up his estate in a similar manner to the Duchy, rather than the mega-farm he has created.
He could have offered a way in to farming for dozens of new entrants.