My Biolectric 52kw AD Plant

[upnortheast]

Bloody hell, that sounds more complex than feeding a Dairy cow. Pleased we went for a roof full of PV panels

 

[Mucktogold]

Bloody hell, that sounds more complex than feeding a Dairy cow. Pleased we went for a roof full of PV panels

Digesters are quite simple. Plenty of websites, sales literature and events to help you buy a digester. Here are some useful snippets found.

You simply choose between CSTR (that's the most common), SBR, USAB (one of those near York?), various types of Anaerobic Filter, vertical or horizontal or inclined Plugflow, multi-stage and hybrid aerobic + anaerobic.

Then choose the materials its made of for corrosion resistance, heat retention and longevity. Check out the heating and mixing method and level of control system. Would 'sir' like ultrasonic or enzymes or additives or catalysts to improve gas yields? Don't forget the height and colour to comply with planning.

Make sure it will last 3 to 5 years, before the mixers break and/or it needs cleaning out and re-starting. Make sure the concrete roof is gas tight.

Once you know what you want, choose the manufacturer/importer and agent and that's it. Plenty of consultants and salesmen out there, all very eager to help.

Easy peasy!!

 

[Mucktogold]

Digesters are quite simple. Plenty of websites, sales literature and events to help you buy a digester. Here are some useful snippets found.

You simply choose between CSTR (that's the most common), SBR, USAB (one of those near York?), various types of Anaerobic Filter, vertical or horizontal or inclined Plugflow, multi-stage and hybrid aerobic + anaerobic.

Then choose the materials its made of for corrosion resistance, heat retention and longevity. Check out the heating and mixing method and level of control system. Would 'sir' like ultrasonic or enzymes or additives or catalysts to improve gas yields? Don't forget the height and colour to comply with planning.

Make sure it will last 3 to 5 years, before the mixers break and/or it needs cleaning out and re-starting. Make sure the concrete roof is gas tight.

Once you know what you want, choose the manufacturer/importer and agent and that's it. Plenty of consultants and salesmen out there, all very eager to help.

Easy peasy!!

Plenty of wind here near the North Sea!

 

[Duncan Peters]

theirs plenty of information even just on this site, just from reading through the last few days seams like the AD reps have been over selling the potential of there plants the question is whether or not its inexperience or just fraud. Seen a few plants out there on our travels to check out the best one for us and found plants that don,t even work "period" and never have done

 

[Mucktogold]

theirs plenty of information even just on this site, just from reading through the last few days seams like the AD reps have been over selling the potential of there plants the question is whether or not its inexperience or just fraud. Seen a few plants out there on our travels to check out the best one for us and found plants that don,t even work "period" and never have done

Interesting!
There was that company, selling plastic underground digesters that promised big energy outputs. They sold about 15, the salesforce mistook fresh matter with volatile solids, so they should have produced 5 to 10 times the biogas than competition. Maybe one was built in the west, this filled up with sand and stones and failed after 18 months.

 

[thesilentone]

Bloody hell, that sounds more complex than feeding a Dairy cow. Pleased we went for a roof full of PV panels

A dairy cow is a much more complex calculation, as milk is the output not methane, in fact we do not want methane from a cow. That is why I hate the reference ' Concrete Cow ' when referring to a digester.

The basics of the calculation are the same, high inputs of DM (with different objectives) that is why most farmers get someone else to do the feeding mixture for them

But, imagine if you could design a Biogas Plant with the same retention period as a cow = £££££££££'s

 

[renewablejohn]

Interesting!
There was that company, selling plastic underground digesters that promised big energy outputs. They sold about 15, the salesforce mistook fresh matter with volatile solids, so they should have produced 5 to 10 times the biogas than competition. Maybe one was built in the west, this filled up with sand and stones and failed after 18 months.

Interested to learn more on this as I believe it was using higher temperatures to most AD plants then suddenly its all gone very quiet.

 

[sjt01]

Interested to learn more on this as I believe it was using higher temperatures to most AD plants then suddenly its all gone very quiet.

Thermophilic digesters working at over 50°C have the potential for greater output but are operating on a knife edge of stability are are reputed to be very difficult to manage. Even mesophilic digesters have their moments!

 

[Digester Man]

Thermophilic digesters working at over 50°C have the potential for greater output but are operating on a knife edge of stability are are reputed to be very difficult to manage. Even mesophilic digesters have their moments!

I was running at 52c for the first 6 months, and a lot of the other plants here are running at the same. I have since come down slightly to 49c for the past year purely to manage ammonia, as I am feeding some high N feedstocks which get more readily converted to free NH3 at higher temps. But thermophilic does not seem to deserve the reputation it has, I certainly know no different!

 

[renewablejohn]

Southern hemisphere seem to use thermophilic without any problems.

 

[renewablejohn]

I was running at 52c for the first 6 months, and a lot of the other plants here are running at the same. I have since come down slightly to 49c for the past year purely to manage ammonia, as I am feeding some high N feedstocks which get more readily converted to free NH3 at higher temps. But thermophilic does not seem to deserve the reputation it has, I certainly know no different!

Do you mind me asking whether your direct injecting into the grid and what is your feedstock.

 

[Digester Man]

Do you mind me asking whether your direct injecting into the grid and what is your feedstock.

No we are only 500kw and there is no RHI for gas to grid in N.Ireland so we are running a CHP and putting the electric into the grid

Feedstock is 70% grass silage, 25% whole crop and 5% broiler litter

 

[renewablejohn]

No we are only 500kw and there is no RHI for gas to grid in N.Ireland so we are running a CHP and putting the electric into the grid

Feedstock is 70% grass silage, 25% whole crop and 5% broiler litter

Who is the manufacturer. Just wondering whether they will be at All Energy in Glasgow on 10th and 11th May.

 

[thesilentone]

I was running at 52c for the first 6 months, and a lot of the other plants here are running at the same. I have since come down slightly to 49c for the past year purely to manage ammonia, as I am feeding some high N feedstocks which get more readily converted to free NH3 at higher temps. But thermophilic does not seem to deserve the reputation it has, I certainly know no different!

Have to agree with Rob, thermophilic is a step forward. More Gas - Faster - Smaller tanks - Higher OLR - better quality CH4

History plays a part. German plants based on Maize and Animal waste are simple. Keep the OLR low and operating temperature low (mesophilic) you also keep the risks low (especially for the funders). Operating knowledge is simple and the recompense system in Germany allowed for lower cost components to be used.(and replaced regularly)

But, life has moved on, SCADA control systems are better, secondary gas cleaning is economic. the knowledge bank is much higher and the UK business model is different.

 

[Mucktogold]

Have to agree with Rob, thermophilic is a step forward. More Gas - Faster - Smaller tanks - Higher OLR - better quality CH4

History plays a part. German plants based on Maize and Animal waste are simple. Keep the OLR low and operating temperature low (mesophilic) you also keep the risks low (especially for the funders). Operating knowledge is simple and the recompense system in Germany allowed for lower cost components to be used.(and replaced regularly)

But, life has moved on, SCADA control systems are better, secondary gas cleaning is economic. the knowledge bank is much higher and the UK business model is different.

What would be the retention time of thermo compared to mesophilic? OLR 3 or 4?

 

[Mucktogold]

Interested to learn more on this as I believe it was using higher temperatures to most AD plants then suddenly its all gone very quiet.

I can't find the websites anymore. These are single or twin black plastic tanks, laid on side and buried. There may be another one at a biking place in Devon? This in in a shed.

 

[Digester Man]

Who is the manufacturer. Just wondering whether they will be at All Energy in Glasgow on 10th and 11th May.

Biogas Hochreiter, don't think they go to many shows so would doubt they will be in Glasgow. They have a 2MW plant in Penrith and a couple of others nearby, check out their website/facebook

 

[Duncan Peters]

talking about two or three stage plants running at 50 odd degrees Snow leopard is good, there technology is found in all qila energy plants so around 20 plus MW in use in the UK and over 45 MW in Germany built and still all running with no down time over a ten or twelve year period seen there latest one in Norfolk is really good, there now into retro fitting existing plants with upgrade units

 

[thesilentone]

What would be the retention time of thermo compared to mesophilic? OLR 3 or 4?

Thermo retention is around half that of meso..........

OLR would be higher with thermo (due to reduced tank size) up to around 7.0 kg/VS m3/digester

 

[thesilentone]

talking about two or three stage plants running at 50 odd degrees Snow leopard is good, there technology is found in all qila energy plants so around 20 plus MW in use in the UK and over 45 MW in Germany built and still all running with no down time over a ten or twelve year period seen there latest one in Norfolk is really good, there now into retro fitting existing plants with upgrade units

Not sure your statement is completely correct. Quila were installing Snow Leopard but moved away from them some time (years) ago.