My new rotation plan

Elmsted

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Location
Bucharest
Fair point ! and I guess my 16 year old boy at that point might be developing his own opinion on his hippy dads rotation !

its a 13 crop cycle though not 13 year rotation -5 of those crops being cover crops out of growing season so it takes 8 years to complete really

Why cover crops at all. Not from a south American perspective. Just adds to cost leave to natural regeneration.o_O
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Why cover crops at all. Not from a south American perspective. Just adds to cost leave to natural regeneration.o_O


my soil has low CEC - it need OM building to hold nutrients and more importantly water

a cover crop doesn't have to cost much at all using whatever seed I have or in some cases just encouraging volunteers to grow will be what i do (roll stubbles etc) . I have been convinced that soil should always have something growing on it to maintain life and maximise water and sunlight use. bare stubble and fallow etc doesn't do that

where I use a cover crop mix that does cost it will be to try and fix structure issues and add to fertility etc and will be more than paid for by my 4 legged friends hopefully ??

Soil bacteria need diversity so growing a few seeds that would not normally feature in my rotation will add to that ??
 

Elmsted

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Location
Bucharest
my soil has low CEC - it need OM building to hold nutrients and more importantly water

a cover crop doesn't have to cost much at all using whatever seed I have or in some cases just encouraging volunteers to grow will be what i do (roll stubbles etc) . I have been convinced that soil should always have something growing on it to maintain life and maximise water and sunlight use. bare stubble and fallow etc doesn't do that

Given please excuse me it's your forum yesterday you posted your choice not to follow the Kinsey way. Yet now start quoting CEC. Yet on another thread you point out how well volenteers grow thrown out back of combine. And elsewhere how herbide spend is probably over done..

ai718.photobucket.com_albums_ww182_Elmsted1369_Machinery_d69717f3.jpg
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Given please excuse me it's your forum yesterday you posted your choice not to follow the Kinsey way. Yet now start quoting CEC. Yet on another thread you point out how well volenteers grow thrown out back of combine. And elsewhere how herbide spend is probably over done..

ai718.photobucket.com_albums_ww182_Elmsted1369_Machinery_d69717f3.jpg


I didn't say I did not follow Kinseys way - what I did say was changing soil balance was a long term job that would take me maybe a life time to achieve economically so in the shorter term I would apply foliar nutrition where required

Volunteers are the cheapest kind of weeds to control (glyphosate) and a good rotation the cheapest and best way to reduce herbicide us so I'm not seeing where you suggest I might be inconsistent here ??
 
why grow W barley ? it steals a first wheat slot and costs more to grow / yield less and sells at a discount to wheat ?? I don't really care about gross income as I think rotations stacked to maximise it come at a big cost of increased input spend - I bet over a 10 year period what I'm proposing outperforms a ww/wosr rotation

less spring crops also misses the chance to grow more cover crop and OM as fast as possible and it harder on cashflow and needs more input spend - I am thinking seriously now about adding another 4 legged crop into this rotation however !!

Winter Wheat

Winter OSR

Winter Wheat

cover crop and Sheep

Spring Peas

Winter Wheat

cover crop and Sheep

Spring Linseed

Winter Wheat

cover crop and Sheep

Spring Oats

Winter Wheat

cover crop and Sheep

Beans (winter or spring weather dependant)

W Barley costs no where near a wheat crop to grow. 160kg/ha N, 1 x herb, 1 x fung, desiccate and thats it.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
W Barley costs no where near a wheat crop to grow. 160kg/ha N, 1 x herb, 1 x fung, desiccate and thats it.


wheen we grew it it regularly cost close to WW - tricky grass weed control and 0.5t/ac less yield sold at a discount to WW

I dread to thin what barley will be worth this year
 
wheen we grew it it regularly cost close to WW - tricky grass weed control and 0.5t/ac less yield sold at a discount to WW

I dread to thin what barley will be worth this year

It does have the advantage of an early harvest though and spreads risk.

I was thinking that the following wouldn't be too bad of a rotation:

WW, WB followed by cover crop with a lot of warm season grasses and warm season broadleafs, spring crop comprising cool season broadleafs , repeat

That would provide an even spread at harvest time plus plenty of time to get a good cover crop established after the barley and good diversity by utilising all types of plants.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
It does have the advantage of an early harvest though and spreads risk.

I was thinking that the following wouldn't be too bad of a rotation:

WW, WB followed by cover crop with a lot of warm season grasses and warm season broadleafs, spring crop comprising cool season broadleafs , repeat

That would provide an even spread at harvest time plus plenty of time to get a good cover crop established after the barley and good diversity by utilising all types of plants.

Early harvest is the only thing going for it really if your neither straw user or seller - I think my rotation gives a good harvest spread though to the point where I could maybe downside harvester to make savings ? However as a milling wheat grower that's not a tempting prospect !!

In my rotation I need my cereal slots to pay and be big crops to cover the spring breaks disadvantage to WOSR so I really need good crops of premium milling wheats in those years and not be wasting them on cheap low yielding barley
 
wheen we grew it it regularly cost close to WW - tricky grass weed control and 0.5t/ac less yield sold at a discount to WW

I dread to thin what barley will be worth this year

At the moment about £170/t. As for new crop then who knows but its cost me very little to grow it. Mines had all its N and the herb spray. It will get a fungicide this week and then shut the gate. Probably talking about £140/ha total inputs including desiccation. Thats the budget at the moment it may need another fung or even insecticide but the cost is not going to be massive. I probably will sell the straw though for this year which I am not overly keen on but id be silly not to. As a replacement for wosr I am not complaining at the moment though ..... Will I grow it again next year ....... maybe, maybe not :unsure:
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
At the moment about £170/t. As for new crop then who knows but its cost me very little to grow it. Mines had all its N and the herb spray. It will get a fungicide this week and then shut the gate. Probably talking about £140/ha total inputs including desiccation. Thats the budget at the moment it may need another fung or even insecticide but the cost is not going to be massive. I probably will sell the straw though for this year which I am not overly keen on but id be silly not to. As a replacement for wosr I am not complaining at the moment though ..... Will I grow it again next year ....... maybe, maybe not :unsure:

its not really an OSR replacement though in a rotation as it's not a break crop
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
It does have the advantage of an early harvest though and spreads risk.

I was thinking that the following wouldn't be too bad of a rotation:

WW, WB followed by cover crop with a lot of warm season grasses and warm season broadleafs, spring crop comprising cool season broadleafs , repeat

That would provide an even spread at harvest time plus plenty of time to get a good cover crop established after the barley and good diversity by utilising all types of plants.

And a way in for Clive's new sheep flock.;)
 
And a way in for Clive's new sheep flock.;)

Next clive will be wearing a flat cap and have a shepherds crook and the black labs will be replaced for lots of 'sheps'. Then he'll be out on the quad bike 3 times a day and might even be seen dagging in his new sheep run .......

Then it'll be the shearing gear ........ (y)
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Next clive will be wearing a flat cap and have a shepherds crook and the black labs will be replaced for lots of 'sheps'. Then he'll be out on the quad bike 3 times a day and might even be seen dagging in his new sheep run .......

Then it'll be the shearing gear ........ (y)

I wonder how long a 12v shearing machine will run, hanging off the front of a RR Sport? :D
 
Someone mentioned they are a lot more work than cattle, well you don't need to house them and feed and bed them daily, you don't need to pour loads of costs into buildings either. I know the ruminant always says that cattle are the best arable break, well I think sheep are MUCH better. Sheep do not make a mess the way cattle do in wet ground and you can always outwinter them and you don't need to build cattle crushes etc. Sheep are much easier to fit into the rotation!
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Next clive will be wearing a flat cap and have a shepherds crook and the black labs will be replaced for lots of 'sheps'. Then he'll be out on the quad bike 3 times a day and might even be seen dagging in his new sheep run .......

Then it'll be the shearing gear ........ (y)


I think me being responsible for any livestock might end up with RSPCA involved !! if I have sheep here they certainly wont be mine !!
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Best thing to do for sheep is find a Welshman with a pile of SFP who dreams of sheep at night.

You should be able to get 70p a week from him if its reasonable grub and a decent spread of land.

If you know any please put him in touch with me ! Wales is only a short run up he a5 from us really
 

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