My Pruex trial

primmiemoo

Member
Location
Devon
What @mezz said in post 99.

Clever beggers, bacteria. The only reason I don't use a non return cup is because I'd be wasting iodine on lambs with the quantity dispensed. Should be very handy with calves, though, I expect.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
That's what we thought, but heard of someone who used to dip navels in a bottle and had a problem with joint ill, so got the solution tested. It was found to be carrying bacteria. They changed and solved the problem.

We have less now we are spraying, but don't know whether that spraying is the cause of the reduction. Get a few every year, but think that rubber tailing rings is causing it as the lambs are slightly older and often have a slight wound on the tail. Looking at using a hot iron instead.

A non return cup would be better, but didn't know of them and didn't want to be decanting for every couple of lambs.

If they are getting joint-ill later, through the wound from the tail, it’s more likely to be caused by erysiphilis imo. That’s a different bug than that which goes in via a wet navel. That ‘later’ joint-ill is why we started vaccinating, many years ago, which stopped it more or less completely.

We were still getting earlier joint-ill, presumably via the navel, if lambs were born in ‘clean’ pens in a contaminated shed, despite spraying navels and ensuring good colostrum intakes. The same sheep born outside, in a muddy field, and without the navels being touched, never get joint-ill. The source of infection is the shed, hence the use of the Pruex.
 

mezz

Member
Location
Ireland
If they are getting joint-ill later, through the wound from the tail, it’s more likely to be caused by erysiphilis imo. That’s a different bug than that which goes in via a wet navel. That ‘later’ joint-ill is why we started vaccinating, many years ago, which stopped it more or less completely.

We were still getting earlier joint-ill, presumably via the navel, if lambs were born in ‘clean’ pens in a contaminated shed, despite spraying navels and ensuring good colostrum intakes. The same sheep born outside, in a muddy field, and without the navels being touched, never get joint-ill. The source of infection is the shed, hence the use of the Pruex.

Thank you. I'll try and send one to the lab this year to find out more. Not a massive problem currently (probably about a dozen out of over 2000) but always a worry that it'll be much much worse, we don't fully understand it, time consuming to treat and uses a lot of antibiotics. We've also been importing a lot of pig slurry, which feels risky, but is really improving the grass and getting it to grow.

Are you using hydrated lime before bedding? I didn't want to stop using the hydrated lime and was worried it would neutralize the Pruex.

How much approximately is the erysipelas Vaccine and is it yearly or lifetime its given?
 

Farmer Fin

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Aberdeenshire
Dipping navels into the same bottle can spread joint ill. We started spraying navels with iodine instead, but still have a small bit of joint ill. Obviously pouring a bit into a tincture and dipping with that and tipping away would work.

Also heard someone say the 10% iodine is too strong as it dries the navel too fast and cause it to crack, letting in infection. He started mixing the 10% iodine half and half with methelated spirits. He said that reduced joint ill. Might try that this year, although my father is against it.

Edit: the spraying has reduced it over dipping
Iodine is a mixture of free and locked up. You need the free to kill bacteria. If you contaminate the pot with sh!t etc then this takes up all the free and bacteria can start growing in it. If dipping use non return dip cups as someone else has said and was them out and disinfect them daily. I have also seen “dipped” lambs where they have completely missed the naval, whether due to, speed, tiredness or carelessness. Just make sure everyone is doing it properly.
 

Farmer Fin

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Aberdeenshire
If they are getting joint-ill later, through the wound from the tail, it’s more likely to be caused by erysiphilis imo. That’s a different bug than that which goes in via a wet navel. That ‘later’ joint-ill is why we started vaccinating, many years ago, which stopped it more or less completely.

We were still getting earlier joint-ill, presumably via the navel, if lambs were born in ‘clean’ pens in a contaminated shed, despite spraying navels and ensuring good colostrum intakes. The same sheep born outside, in a muddy field, and without the navels being touched, never get joint-ill. The source of infection is the shed, hence the use of the Pruex.
3 main routes of entry. Naval, tonsils and tail as said above. Tonsils is an important one which is why you need the clean environment and clean dry udders.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Thank you. I'll try and send one to the lab this year to find out more. Not a massive problem currently (probably about a dozen out of over 2000) but always a worry that it'll be much much worse, we don't fully understand it, time consuming to treat and uses a lot of antibiotics. We've also been importing a lot of pig slurry, which feels risky, but is really improving the grass and getting it to grow.

Are you using hydrated lime before bedding? I didn't want to stop using the hydrated lime and was worried it would neutralize the Pruex.

How much approximately is the erysipelas Vaccine and is it yearly or lifetime its given?

I never used to see any difference when I did use lime (or any other of the magic treatments we’ve tried over the years), so haven’t used it at all in many years, or cleaned out between sheep.
I cleared up my December lambing pens about 10 days ago, and I did notice the bedding was still very dry. Normally there would be a wet patch on the concrete under each pen. This time, having used Pruex over lambing, there was only one (where there was a drip from the roof overhead), the rest were dry. It did make it tricky loading it in the trailer on a breezy day though!

The vaccine is a pig vaccine called Porcilis Ery, and ‘off label’ use so should have vet involved now. Like Heptavac, it needs 2 doses to start, then an annual booster pre-lambing. That transfers passive immunity through the colostrum, so needs to be timed as clostridial boosters (I have always done at the same time) and lambs obviously need to get colostrum. Price has gone up in recent years, and currently 44p/2ml dose.
Personally, if you’re only getting 12 cases from 2000, I wouldn’t vaccinate at that price. And yes, the pig slurry could be the source. I’ve no longer how long it could cause a problem for, but can you avoid spreading it on fields that young lambs will be on?

There have apparently been reported cases of sheep aborting after having Footvax and Porcilis Ery, as was the subject of a thread on here the other day. I’ve never seen it, but I haven’t used vaccine for some time. Something else to bear in mind though, as ‘off label’ use means no comeback on the vaccine manufacturer.
 

hubbahubba

Member
Location
Sunny Glasgow
If they are getting joint-ill later, through the wound from the tail, it’s more likely to be caused by erysiphilis imo. That’s a different bug than that which goes in via a wet navel. That ‘later’ joint-ill is why we started vaccinating, many years ago, which stopped it more or less completely.

We were still getting earlier joint-ill, presumably via the navel, if lambs were born in ‘clean’ pens in a contaminated shed, despite spraying navels and ensuring good colostrum intakes. The same sheep born outside, in a muddy field, and without the navels being touched, never get joint-ill. The source of infection is the shed, hence the use of the Pruex.

I normally get about 15 or 20 with this later jointill. Spoke to vet and he thought there isnt much i can do for it. Lambs are 2 to 6 weeks old and then start limping. The odd one seems to get the infection in there spine, lose there back legs and dont get up again. I should maybe look into this vaccine but presume i will be too late this year? How long will a navil jointill take to effect lambs, days?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
I normally get about 15 or 20 with this later jointill. Spoke to vet and he thought there isnt much i can do for it. Lambs are 2 to 6 weeks old and then start limping. The odd one seems to get the infection in there spine, lose there back legs and dont get up again. I should maybe look into this vaccine but presume i will be too late this year? How long will a navil jointill take to effect lambs, days?

IME, joint-ill that comes from contaminated lambing sheds/pens seems to show itself in a few days. Before we vaccinated, we used to get a wave hit a week after the tails started dropping off. Vaccination certainly stopped that, and I’m afraid of stopping tbh.
However, if you only have 15-20, you need to weigh that up against the not inconsiderable cost of vaccinating at 44p/dose. When we started it was about about 10p, and we had a year of chasing a hell of a lot of lambs to jab at 3-4 weeks old, so it was a no-brainier to try it. Given today’s cost though, you’d need to be having a significant number infected to make it worthwhile imo.

I’m told you can take an infected lamb (before treatment obviously) to the vet and they will draw off the fluid from the swollen joint and test for the bacteria responsible. That would confirm whether erysiphilis was responsible or not. I have to admit that I’ve never done that though.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
IME, joint-ill that comes from contaminated lambing sheds/pens seems to show itself in a few days. Before we vaccinated, we used to get a wave hit a week after the tails started dropping off. Vaccination certainly stopped that, and I’m afraid of stopping tbh.
However, if you only have 15-20, you need to weigh that up against the not inconsiderable cost of vaccinating at 44p/dose. When we started it was about about 10p, and we had a year of chasing a hell of a lot of lambs to jab at 3-4 weeks old, so it was a no-brainier to try it. Given today’s cost though, you’d need to be having a significant number infected to make it worthwhile imo.

I’m told you can take an infected lamb (before treatment obviously) to the vet and they will draw off the fluid from the swollen joint and test for the bacteria responsible. That would confirm whether erysiphilis was responsible or not. I have to admit that I’ve never done that though.
I think you will find that the Erysipelas type will still be got in the first few days or week as being most likely, then it takes a while for the damage to be done to the joint and therefore can take awhile for it to show, them lambs might've been relativly poor doers as well ?

But It's a crap thing to have even in a few having to right the lamb off when hes otherwise fine.
Same with the pigs they used go come in with it as wearers, it just took a few weeks to come out, or when they got a bit bigger and tearing around the pens or playfull/ boisterous, then joint(s ) used to swell and limping progressed .....
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
I think you will find that the Erysipelas type will still be got in the first few days or week as being most likely, then it takes a while for the damage to be done to the joint and therefore can take awhile for it to show, them lambs might've been relativly poor doers as well ?

But It's a crap thing to have even in a few having to right the lamb off when hes otherwise fine.
Same with the pigs they used go come in with it as wearers, it just took a fes weeks to come out, or when they got a bit bigger and tearing around the pens or playfull/ boisterous, then joint(s ) used to swell and limping progressed .....

Before we vaccinated we used to see two distinct waves, the second a bit after newly exposed wounds from tails dropping off.
With vaccination, we just don’t get that second wave, but we still saw the ‘lambing pen problems’ when lambing in a contaminated (but cleaned out) shed. That’s why we tried the Pruex, as detailed in the OP of this thread.
I suspect we would still see the later problems if we stopped vaccinating, but I’m unwilling to try it to see if I’m right.

I do know that we get almost no joint-ill lambing outdoors (with vaccinated ewes again), despite no navel treatments and obviously lambing in less than sanitary conditions at times. The problem is from the shed, and the bacteria that are there in numbers.:(
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Before we vaccinated we used to see two distinct waves, the second a bit after newly exposed wounds from tails dropping off.
With vaccination, we just don’t get that second wave, but we still saw the ‘lambing pen problems’ when lambing in a contaminated (but cleaned out) shed. That’s why we tried the Pruex, as detailed in the OP of this thread.
I suspect we would still see the later problems if we stopped vaccinating, but I’m unwilling to try it to see if I’m right.

I do know that we get almost no joint-ill lambing outdoors (with vaccinated ewes again), despite no navel treatments and obviously lambing in less than sanitary conditions at times. The problem is from the shed, and the bacteria that are there in numbers.:(
I see they do stuff to prevent acne as well ...... " I wish I had that when I was a teenager" (y):unsure:
 

hubbahubba

Member
Location
Sunny Glasgow
Before we vaccinated we used to see two distinct waves, the second a bit after newly exposed wounds from tails dropping off.
With vaccination, we just don’t get that second wave, but we still saw the ‘lambing pen problems’ when lambing in a contaminated (but cleaned out) shed. That’s why we tried the Pruex, as detailed in the OP of this thread.
I suspect we would still see the later problems if we stopped vaccinating, but I’m unwilling to try it to see if I’m right.

I do know that we get almost no joint-ill lambing outdoors (with vaccinated ewes again), despite no navel treatments and obviously lambing in less than sanitary conditions at times. The problem is from the shed, and the bacteria that are there in numbers.:(
Did u get the later joint-ill when lambing outside before you started vaccinating. I am meaning to try this pruex stuff this year and not use standard disinfecting but it may not help my situation. Unless its always been in the effected lambs as @Bury the Trash is saying.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Did u get the later joint-ill when lambing outside before you started vaccinating. I am meaning to try this pruex stuff this year and not use standard disinfecting but it may not help my situation. Unless its always been in the effected lambs as @Bury the Trash is saying.

We’ve been vaccinating for Ery for about 30 years, and only lambing outside since 2008, so I can’t help on that one.
 

hubbahubba

Member
Location
Sunny Glasgow
Anyone beeen using pruex for lambing this year? I am considering it and there wanting to send out swobs for me to test the water and shed for bacteria, at a cost of £60. Then likely test again in a few weeks. They think it will cost around 400-500 pound to use it for lambing 800 inside although all depends on bacteria we have.

I am.only wanting it to help with feet problems and jointill, which is a later type of joint-ill we get anyway ?‍♂️. They think ewes in general are healthier when you add pruex as there will be bad bacteria stopping them perform at there max.... if we were to use it we wouldnt jag all lambs with betamox la at birth and wouldnt be disinfecting sheds everyday.

Any more reviews?
 

MJT

Member
Trying it for first time this year, aim was to reduce / eradicate watery mouth . Have hardly had a case of watery mouth , but have just had an outbreak of Joint ill in 5 lambs in last 24 hours . haven’t had much problem with joint Ill for years , so the jury is still very much out for Pruex for me .
 

hubbahubba

Member
Location
Sunny Glasgow
Trying it for first time this year, aim was to reduce / eradicate watery mouth . Have hardly had a case of watery mouth , but have just had an outbreak of Joint ill in 5 lambs in last 24 hours . haven’t had much problem with joint Ill for years , so the jury is still very much out for Pruex for me .
Is your sheep bedding any dryer especiallyin the bonding pens?
 

MJT

Member
Is your sheep bedding any dryer especiallyin the bonding pens?

Im lambing on slats, do put strawbedding on slats in bonding pens, but it all gets treated with Pruex product . As it’s slats it stays pretty dry anyways so hard to tell to be honest .
 
Hi all. I’m interested in potentially using this in our lambing sheds. What rate are folk misting their shed with the Animals Housing Stabiliser?
I spoke to the folk at Pruex the other day and I’m sure she said 1 litre per 400m2 of floor space every day. Works out at 10p per m2 per week. For my shed area that’s £280 per week.
It seems expensive and would need to save a lot of lambs to justify it. We have had issues with watery mouth in the past and I’m keen to reduce our use of antibiotics.

Thanks.
 

tr250

Member
Location
Northants
Hi all. I’m interested in potentially using this in our lambing sheds. What rate are folk misting their shed with the Animals Housing Stabiliser?
I spoke to the folk at Pruex the other day and I’m sure she said 1 litre per 400m2 of floor space every day. Works out at 10p per m2 per week. For my shed area that’s £280 per week.
It seems expensive and would need to save a lot of lambs to justify it. We have had issues with watery mouth in the past and I’m keen to reduce our use of antibiotics.

Thanks.
We have used it this time for the first time and although sceptical at first it does seemed to have worked we have cut out spectam altogether but injected ones that showed signs and that was the ones that were messed about and didn’t get enough colostrum etc. Expensive but worthwhile in our opinion
 

Is the NEC a better venue for LAMMA?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,028
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top