Mycoplasma in bought in calves.

[HappyShep76]

Thanks for all of your responses so far.

Today has not been a good day.

We have a group of 32 calves that are weaned and aged 8-10 weeks old. They’ve been running out on a small meadow with tons of grass and taking a little over 2kg/head/day of heifer nuts. This morning they had not eaten up which is unusual. On a trip round the field there turned out to be 7 animals that needed treatment. None of these calves have shown any signs of illness before today. 3 are from the same herd. Soul destroying. They’ve been put back on milk just to keep them ticking along. As some of you have said, I dread doing my checks.

In answer to a few questions from the reply’s above, the calves are bought from our dealer who buys from multiple sources. These include direct from the farm and markets. The calves are delivered on a Friday (from 9pm to midnight) and some will come straight from Beeston that day. They are dropped into a straw yard with heifer nuts and water to appetite. They are given a milk feed the next morning after sorting.

We have spoken to our supplier and he tells us that he has never had this problem with the calves before we get them. I’m not pointing a finger at anyone but I find this so hard to believe. His Vets apparently say there is nothing to worry about as it’s been around for a long time. It’s at this point it feels like you’re running headlong into a brick wall.....

We have closely looked at all this years calf ID’s and there are herds we’ve had animals from for a few years without incident that have had multiple sick/dead calves this year. There has to be a reason for this. All too often there are more than one offender per herdmark. Are they infected from mums milk, dump line milk or from the market/dealer? So many questions that I cannot get to the bottom of.

Tomorrow’s another day so fingers crossed .

 

[lamb89]

I understand some of the problems you have had. Last winter we had same problems and had high loss. We've got the though the worst I hope. Problem is there in 3 group now age 4 -9 months. All in all they mainly look ok but still have to treat the odd 1 here or there. There is coughing and the odd snoty nose. Should i leave alone or treat? All advise welcome.thanks

 

[primmiemoo]

I do hope tomorrow is better for the calves and for you and your team, @HappyShep76 .
It doesn't matter if it's one calf to nurse or many, it's blurry stressful. I've only read of the condition in relation to NZ, and never knew it's in GB.

Wonder how many have died at the particular sources and not been post mortem'd, simply considered "one of those things".

Without optimism - however much tempered by experience - nobody would ever farm or grow anything.
Fingers crossed in sympathy.

 

[HappyShep76]

I understand some of the problems you have had. Last winter we had same problems and had high loss. We've got the though the worst I hope. Problem is there in 3 group now age 4 -9 months. All in all the mainly look ok but still have to treat the odd 1 here or there. There is coughing and the odd snoty nose. Should leave alone or treat? All advise welcome.thanks

I would personally treat anything that looks nothing but normal.

I’m not a fan of instantly running for a needle & syringe as I find cattle quite tough cookies but if they need medication then best they get some.

 

[willie waver]

I understand some of the problems you have had. Last winter we had same problems and had high loss. We've got the though the worst I hope. Problem is there in 3 group now age 4 -9 months. All in all the mainly look ok but still have to treat the odd 1 here or there. There is coughing and the odd snoty nose. Should leave alone or treat? All advise welcome.thanks

thermometer up the bum every day till you're sure all's well is my advise

the calves bum, not yours obviously......

 

[HappyShep76]

thermometer up the bum every day till you're sure all's well is my advise

the calves bum, not yours obviously......

I’m glad you made that last bit clear........

 

[lamb89]

Thank. There mainly 100-300kg so not to easy to handle every day but I will give it a go. I would consider metacam and alamycin. Do you think that is enough? There's 150 in total.

 

[Hampton]

Thank. There mainly 100-300kg so not to easy to handle every day but I will give it a go. I would consider metacam and alamycin. Do you think that is enough? There's 150 in total.

@HappyShep76 and @lamb89
I would take temps and treat.
I would treat ones with high temps with draxxin or zactran or resflor (+ metacam where necessary) and put them in a batch and keep checking temps and jab anything with a raised temperature. You can use Alamycin and it is legal to use it at higher dose rates in special conditions but speak to your vet.
Have a word with your vet about micotyl. It’s powerful stuff as is marbocyl. Highly likely they won’t give you marbocyl but important to ask.
Dexadreson also helps but has the unwanted effect of suppressing the immune system. Again talk to your vet.

I remember feeling desperate about the situation last year, knowing that you’d spent £40 on jabbing an animal 3 days before and knowing it needed another dose, but at the same time experience was talking you that you may as well flush £80 down the toilet.
@lamb89 i strongly recommend risproval 4 for the healthy calves. It is 2 doses and takes 4-6 weeks to work, but it definitely helps as does fluking.
Don’t get too down, remember it’s not your fault, you can only do your best with the problems you have inherited.

 

[lamb89]

Thanks for the advice. The smallest our outside in the field in a batch of 35. I will start with them before I rehouse them.

 

[gone up the hill]

Thanks for all of your responses so far.

Today has not been a good day.

We have a group of 32 calves that are weaned and aged 8-10 weeks old. They’ve been running out on a small meadow with tons of grass and taking a little over 2kg/head/day of heifer nuts. This morning they had not eaten up which is unusual. On a trip round the field there turned out to be 7 animals that needed treatment. None of these calves have shown any signs of illness before today. 3 are from the same herd. Soul destroying. They’ve been put back on milk just to keep them ticking along. As some of you have said, I dread doing my checks.

In answer to a few questions from the reply’s above, the calves are bought from our dealer who buys from multiple sources. These include direct from the farm and markets. The calves are delivered on a Friday (from 9pm to midnight) and some will come straight from Beeston that day. They are dropped into a straw yard with heifer nuts and water to appetite. They are given a milk feed the next morning after sorting.

We have spoken to our supplier and he tells us that he has never had this problem with the calves before we get them. I’m not pointing a finger at anyone but I find this so hard to believe. His Vets apparently say there is nothing to worry about as it’s been around for a long time. It’s at this point it feels like you’re running headlong into a brick wall.....

We have closely looked at all this years calf ID’s and there are herds we’ve had animals from for a few years without incident that have had multiple sick/dead calves this year. There has to be a reason for this. All too often there are more than one offender per herdmark. Are they infected from mums milk, dump line milk or from the market/dealer? So many questions that I cannot get to the bottom of.

Tomorrow’s another day so fingers crossed .

A few points:

1: Why did you buy more batch's from this dealer after the hassle with the first batches and his/ her refusal to help you??

2 : You NEED to fed the calves the same night they arrive on farm, not leave them until the next morning as some of them will not have had any milk since Thurs afternoon/ eve and not feeding them again until Sat Morn is just asking for trouble let alone a welfare issue.

3 : You say heifer nuts? so is that the big nuts or a proper calf starter pellet? ( which is a smaller pellet unlike normal Heifer sized pellets )

4 : You are weaning them off too young and that will be adding to their stress, would be better weaned around 10/12 weeks old.

 

[Andy54]

Thanks for all of your responses so far.

Today has not been a good day.

We have a group of 32 calves that are weaned and aged 8-10 weeks old. They’ve been running out on a small meadow with tons of grass and taking a little over 2kg/head/day of heifer nuts. This morning they had not eaten up which is unusual. On a trip round the field there turned out to be 7 animals that needed treatment. None of these calves have shown any signs of illness before today. 3 are from the same herd. Soul destroying. They’ve been put back on milk just to keep them ticking along. As some of you have said, I dread doing my checks.

In answer to a few questions from the reply’s above, the calves are bought from our dealer who buys from multiple sources. These include direct from the farm and markets. The calves are delivered on a Friday (from 9pm to midnight) and some will come straight from Beeston that day. They are dropped into a straw yard with heifer nuts and water to appetite. They are given a milk feed the next morning after sorting.

We have spoken to our supplier and he tells us that he has never had this problem with the calves before we get them. I’m not pointing a finger at anyone but I find this so hard to believe. His Vets apparently say there is nothing to worry about as it’s been around for a long time. It’s at this point it feels like you’re running headlong into a brick wall.....

We have closely looked at all this years calf ID’s and there are herds we’ve had animals from for a few years without incident that have had multiple sick/dead calves this year. There has to be a reason for this. All too often there are more than one offender per herdmark. Are they infected from mums milk, dump line milk or from the market/dealer? So many questions that I cannot get to the bottom of.

Tomorrow’s another day so fingers crossed .

This sounds just like the exact tale I could tell you including banging your head against a brick wall with vets. Don't overdo the quantity of milk you give them, you think you are doing right giving them a full feed as they recover but we found that they start to scour which then weakens them further and so slowing their recovery.
Keep your chin up, you are doing everything you can at this point.

 

[HappyShep76]

A few points:

1: Why did you buy more batch's from this dealer after the hassle with the first batches and his/ her refusal to help you??

2 : You NEED to fed the calves the same night they arrive on farm, not leave them until the next morning as some of them will not have had any milk since Thurs afternoon/ eve and not feeding them again until Sat Morn is just asking for trouble let alone a welfare issue.

3 : You say heifer nuts? so is that the big nuts or a proper calf starter pellet? ( which is a smaller pellet unlike normal Heifer sized pellets )

4 : You are weaning them off too young and that will be adding to their stress, would be better weaned around 10/12 weeks old.

The mycoplasma was not confirmed until 2 weeks after our 2nd batch of calves. At that point we had 150 calves on the farm. We had numerous conversations with our vet, and dealer, and were left feeling that having more calves was going to be ok so long as we treated anything poorly. I’ll admit we had no idea of just how serious this was going to be. We have stopped our calf deliveries despite being short of where we wanted to be. Too much at stake.

Feeding calves on arrival is not a practice that we follow. Agree with it or not, it has always worked for us previously. They all have free access to calf starter pellets and fresh water. They consume both very well. I can assure you that welfare is something I don’t take lightly. Of course they’re a bit noisy but they take to the feeders very well for there 1st feed.

When it comes to weaning we will wean at no less than 6 weeks and it’s dependent on many factors when we do wean. How much hard feed they’re taking, size, health etc. As a general rule of thumb, most calves are weaned by 8 weeks. However, each calf is an individual. We have had poor calves on milk until they are 12 weeks of age and to be honest I cannot see a huge advantage with our system. They will nearly always be poor doers.

How we do things is not in question as we would have numerous problems each year. We’ve had calves die at 3 weeks old and calves die at 10 weeks that are still on milk.

 

[HappyShep76]

This sounds just like the exact tale I could tell you including banging your head against a brick wall with vets. Don't overdo the quantity of milk you give them, you think you are doing right giving them a full feed as they recover but we found that they start to scour which then weakens them further and so slowing their recovery.
Keep your chin up, you are doing everything you can at this point.

We made the mistake of over feeding the poorly ones with milk and paid the price. They scoured themselves away to nothing in no time. Norodine & Buscopan was given for either 3 or 5 days depending on severity. Worked on most but not all of them.

 

[gone up the hill]

The mycoplasma was not confirmed until 2 weeks after our 2nd batch of calves. At that point we had 150 calves on the farm. We had numerous conversations with our vet, and dealer, and were left feeling that having more calves was going to be ok so long as we treated anything poorly. I’ll admit we had no idea of just how serious this was going to be. We have stopped our calf deliveries despite being short of where we wanted to be. Too much at stake.

Feeding calves on arrival is not a practice that we follow. Agree with it or not, it has always worked for us previously. They all have free access to calf starter pellets and fresh water. They consume both very well. I can assure you that welfare is something I don’t take lightly. Of course they’re a bit noisy but they take to the feeders very well for there 1st feed.

When it comes to weaning we will wean at no less than 6 weeks and it’s dependent on many factors when we do wean. How much hard feed they’re taking, size, health etc. As a general rule of thumb, most calves are weaned by 8 weeks. However, each calf is an individual. We have had poor calves on milk until they are 12 weeks of age and to be honest I cannot see a huge advantage with our system. They will nearly always be poor doers.

How we do things is not in question as we would have numerous problems each year. We’ve had calves die at 3 weeks old and calves die at 10 weeks that are still on milk.

Yes but the more stress they are under the quicker/ more likely they are to get ill so anything you can do to reduce that stress can only be a good thing.

How much cake a day are they eating when you wean them and do you step wean or just cut it out overnight?

Quite clear that you have a vet issue as much as anything, I would suggest getting someone else in for advice.

Also have you spoke directly to the farmers from where these calves have come from?

 

[HappyShep76]

Yes but the more stress they are under the quicker/ more likely they are to get ill so anything you can do to reduce that stress can only be a good thing.

How much cake a day are they eating when you wean them and do you step wean or just cut it out overnight?

Quite clear that you have a vet issue as much as anything, I would suggest getting someone else in for advice.

Also have you spoke directly to the farmers from where these calves have come from?

I understand the stress is a deciding factor. Even when we think we’re doing our best for them we obviously aren’t always.

We have crash weaned in the past but we now feed them a half volume for 4/5 days. They seem to accept weaning much better. I would say they are taking on average 1.8kg/head when we wean. They then go onto a creep system until they’re about 5 months old and are then pulled back to trough feeding as they run to fat too quick. They’re not housed over winter but fed good quality silage on very sandy land. It suits them very well and tend to grow like stink.

We’ve spoken to more than one vet and they all say the same. Only one has actually said anything remotely true to what is happening.

 

[gone up the hill]

I understand the stress is a deciding factor. Even when we think we’re doing our best for them we obviously aren’t always.

We have crash weaned in the past but we now feed them a half volume for 4/5 days. They seem to accept weaning much better. I would say they are taking on average 1.8kg/head when we wean. They then go onto a creep system until they’re about 5 months old and are then pulled back to trough feeding as they run to fat too quick. They’re not housed over winter but fed good quality silage on very sandy land. It suits them very well and tend to grow like stink.

We’ve spoken to more than one vet and they all say the same. Only one has actually said anything remotely true to what is happening.

I would speak directly to the farmers where the problem calves come from.

Also might be worth posting on any NZ farm forums asking for advice as they have a lot more experience with this illness.

 

[som farmer]

we have reared calves for years, with only 'normal' problems, last year, on rearing only rearing our own calves from our dairy herd, we contracted crypto, hadn't really come across it before, we lost nearlt 70%, an underlying iodine problem didn't help. we bought new hurdles, feeders and moved sheds, fed halicur for 7 days, and wored through it. looking back, we looked at what we spent, on drugs vet etc . and decided it would have been cheaper to have shot that bunch, the survivors have not really done, and are well behind where they should be. the long term costs are ongoing, this season we have changed sheds, all hurdles, fronts etc, have been outside all summer, and disinfected before use, bio security is better, and ,touch wood, we have lost 1 live born calve out of 80. this isn,t micro plasma, and is only quoted to help any one that has had the utter soul destroying experience of rampant disease in their units. our vets were very vocal about what to do, not so good on how to do it!

 

[HappyShep76]

we have reared calves for years, with only 'normal' problems, last year, on rearing only rearing our own calves from our dairy herd, we contracted crypto, hadn't really come across it before, we lost nearlt 70%, an underlying iodine problem didn't help. we bought new hurdles, feeders and moved sheds, fed halicur for 7 days, and wored through it. looking back, we looked at what we spent, on drugs vet etc . and decided it would have been cheaper to have shot that bunch, the survivors have not really done, and are well behind where they should be. the long term costs are ongoing, this season we have changed sheds, all hurdles, fronts etc, have been outside all summer, and disinfected before use, bio security is better, and ,touch wood, we have lost 1 live born calve out of 80. this isn,t micro plasma, and is only quoted to help any one that has had the utter soul destroying experience of rampant disease in their units. our vets were very vocal about what to do, not so good on how to do it!

That sounds like a nightmare too. I can’t imagine having the loss of 70%.

There always seems to be a hurdle to climb each year. Last year we experienced Blackleg in our maiden heifers. The first day was like a battle scene. Dead/dying heifers laid where they spent the night. Absolutely awful! We managed to vaccinate that day and no more problems. We now do it without fail.

I dread to think what next year will throw at us!!!!

 

[severeoversteer]

i have dealt with mycoplasma bovis 3 years ago on my farm
never want to see it again
bought in 30 charolais weanlings 8 months old
2 days later they started getting sick
anitbiotics draxxin etc were used an only saved a few
best approach we had by the end was to feed antibiotic powder to the full herd in the meal for about a month
we tried to cut the powder after 10 days and temperatures started to rise so had to stick with it
lost 8 charolais bulls to it.
comrades that survived didn't thrive like the other batches before them either.
cost me about 11 thousand euro and that's not taking lost thrive into account.

 

[ShooTa]

Just jumping in to say chin up and good luck - we only have sheep and as a result i cant imagine what its like, but asking for help and seeking advice is a massive massive sign of good husbandry and as a human quality - too many fail to do this and hide problems - which sadly lead to others such as yourself having nightmare situations.
seems like theres a situation within the supply chain thats being covered up and it will surely hurt beef once again.
any way, good luck