Named Sire scheme

[Hummin-Cummins]

How legitimate is this? I have a ruck of calves i bought that are supposedly“named sire” (sire details have been supplied etc) but nothing on the passports? Im told you just wright the sire details on top of the passport when u send them to kill?? Doesn’t sound very official to me.
Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

TIA
H-C

 

[primmiemoo]

It isn't compulsory to put Sire's number on a passport, so if you've been given the name and number to write in, that's ok.

I think there's a campaign to encourage sire's info on the passport highlighted in another thread.

 

[matthew]

Aberdeen Angus have a DNA database, which can be checked against cattle with allegedly 'named sires'.
"Black Billy" bull, doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[Durry cows]

Aberdeen Angus have a DNA database, which can be checked against cattle with allegedly 'named sires'.
"Black Billy" bull, doesn't cut it anymore.

Is it only Angus with data base? What about Hereford? What’s to check legitacy on them?

 

[Blod]

BSH registered bulls are DNA sampled too. I’d want a written declaration if it’s not recorded on the passport.

 

[matthew]

Is it only Angus with data base? What about Hereford? What’s to check legitacy on them?

Sorry, can’t answer for any other breed Society. But the Angus lot went back three years to DNA test registered bulls in commercial herds to tighten things up.

 

[abitdaft]

How legitimate is this? I have a ruck of calves i bought that are supposedly“named sire” (sire details have been supplied etc) but nothing on the passports? Im told you just wright the sire details on top of the passport when u send them to kill?? Doesn’t sound very official to me.
Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

TIA
H-C

In the past when the named sire thing came in with the Angus' we supplied the pedigree name of the bull as well as number ( hand written on the passport of store calves), now when registering calves we put the sire on the passport when registering calves It sounds similar to then. Never had an issue come back and it was on the advice of the mart.

 

[matthew]

In the past when the named sire thing came in with the Angus' we supplied the pedigree name of the bull as well as number ( hand written on the passport of store calves), now when registering calves we put the sire on the passport when registering calves It sounds similar to then. Never had an issue come back and it was on the advice of the mart.

Same here. But a few years ago, the AA lot told me that if the bull was sold to a commercial herd, no DNA was necessary. No comment on that. And it is now.

 

[primmiemoo]

I can fully understand the DNA element.

What ticked me off twice when there were sucklers here, was declaring cattle were Angus x, but not named sire at market (we'd hired in a good bull that wasn't registered, so I didn't put his eartag number on any passports) only to have the eventual buyers from up country each phone asking where the bull's details were.

They'd bought from a dealer who'd sold them as all NS!

 

[Hummin-Cummins]

Ive had definite blue x calves before now with angus on the passport and a named sire on the invoice, just seems to lucrative

 

[primmiemoo]

Ive had definite blue x calves before now with angus on the passport and a named sire on the invoice, just seems to lucrative

Is that a possible outcome of mixed breed straws at AI? The paperwork takes away the stockperson's ability to asses the breed of a calf at birth?

Was going to use a tongue-in-cheek emoji, but find I'm interested to know if that does, in fact, happen.

 

[Hummin-Cummins]

Is that a possible outcome of mixed breed straws at AI? The paperwork takes away the stockperson's ability to asses the breed of a calf at birth?

Was going to use a tongue-in-cheek emoji, but find I'm interested to know if that does, in fact, happen.

I cant comment weather or not that happens as dont AI ourselves but my thoughts were it was a poorish blue but looked good as an angus its black with a blueish face so maybe the previous owner thought it might be worth more as a named sire calf than a poor blue? Its now 18 months old and looks in fine shape so its definitely not an angus and the fact I had to dehorned it as a calf made me very suspicious

 

[Fergieman]

Was there not a fall out at the AA society a few years ago because 'some' of the pedigree bull breeders didn't want compulsary DNA testing of bulls. Now if you have nothing to hide whats the problem?

 

[Woolless]

Was there not a fall out at the AA society a few years ago because 'some' of the pedigree bull breeders didn't want compulsary DNA testing of bulls. Now if you have nothing to hide whats the problem?

Am I right to think that subsequently some AA bulls were unregistered?

 

[Princess Pooper]

Same here. But a few years ago, the AA lot told me that if the bull was sold to a commercial herd, no DNA was necessary. No comment on that. And it is now.

But meat processors and supermarkets etc would have access to CTS and can see where a bull is. We have for years owned a pedigree AA bull and use him as a sweeper. When we register calves his ear tag is on the passports and we also write his name in pencil when we sell the calves. Anyone who has the correct level of CTS access can see he was on our farm at the time of service and it's easy enough to see his pedigree.
We also sell Simm x calves from AI, and do the same, it won't have a benefit in terms of 'native breeds' but hopefully folks can see we are using a decent bull and it will also add to the EBV data.

 

[Woolless]

But meat processors and supermarkets etc would have access to CTS and can see where a bull is. We have for years owned a pedigree AA bull and use him as a sweeper. When we register calves his ear tag is on the passports and we also write his name in pencil when we sell the calves. Anyone who has the correct level of CTS access can see he was on our farm at the time of service and it's easy enough to see his pedigree.
We also sell Simm x calves from AI, and do the same, it won't have a benefit in terms of 'native breeds' but hopefully folks can see we are using a decent bull and it will also add to the EBV data.

I think anyone who knows the sire of calves they are registering should put it on the passport to help with traceability, EBVs etc.

 

[matthew]

But meat processors and supermarkets etc would have access to CTS and can see where a bull is. We have for years owned a pedigree AA bull and use him as a sweeper. When we register calves his ear tag is on the passports and we also write his name in pencil when we sell the calves. Anyone who has the correct level of CTS access can see he was on our farm at the time of service and it's easy enough to see his pedigree.
We also sell Simm x calves from AI, and do the same, it won't have a benefit in terms of 'native breeds' but hopefully folks can see we are using a decent bull and it will also add to the EBV data.

This went further than than a pedigree certificate and CTS. That was paperwork. Hence compulsory DNA on all AA bulls now.