Native bull beef - when to slaughter

[beefandsleep]

It’s probably different cutting into a rumen full of high dry matter forage than one full of barley slurry, perhaps the best thing would be to just give straw the night before. I’ve always found it easier to load empty cattle though.

 

[Purli R]

I have a pair of British White X Shorthorn bulls, 10 months and 11 months old. They each weigh 500 kg and look reasonably well fleshed. One looks fat, with a very wide back on him. They are from small cows and look like they won't grow a big frame.

I feel like it's time to get them away now but just wondered what other people do. I am running low on straw so it would help to reduce numbers.

What's the general spec for buyers of bull beet at a market? I think they like them a bit heavier but I am worried that these will just put on fat. The 10 month old one would probably stand a bit more but I like two in the trailer to save transport costs and it does weigh 500.

Not done this before. Asking round here I get a different opinion depending on who I speak to, but the market people think they will do OK.

Thanks.

Running low on straw in lincolnshire? Were all fecked up in the hills then

 

[DrWazzock]

Running low on straw in lincolnshire? Were all fecked up in the hills then

We needn't have been short but the others told me to chop the winter barley straw as we had a big acreage of Spring barley straw to come. Biggest mistake of last year. By the time the spring barley was ready it wouldn't stop raining and most of that straw rotted into the ground apart from a few damp ones we snatched on a Sunday morning.

I think there is still a fair bit available round here, but not in our yard. Well scrape through with a kind Spring if we are careful.

 

[DrWazzock]

Well it's been an interesting experiment.

I though I'd try the ad lib barley plus ad lib barley straw method.

Gradually switched from hay to straw, phased in. Gradually the cattle ate less and less of it as they wouldn't touch the straw even though it seemed good quality to me. Gradually upped the barley ration. Initially the cattle ate a phenomenal amount as they were eating less and less fibre from the straw. Then they stalled with acidosis despite buffer in the ration at the correct rate and were stood around shouting for something, not eating the barley at all. So they have gone from eating 10 kg per day of barley fed in three feeds to eating next to nothing and acidosis.

So put a round bale of very second rate hay in the ring feeder last night. This morning half of it eaten and cattle contentedly cudding nicely. Still not eaten very much barley, but hope they will clean up what's left in the trough eventually and then I'll give them a bit more and hopefully build back up to where we were.

Moral of the story. Do what works for you, not what the "experts" or consensus opinion says.

Wish I'd never heard of ad lib feeding. Got them to 500 kg in 12 months on 3 feeds a day feeding to DM demand for body weight but have probably stood still for 10 days pissing about with this ad lib malarkey.

It's too easy with forums and the Internet in general to lose faith in your own "on the ground" judgement and rely on false prophets of which there are many.

 

[multi power]

Well it's been an interesting experiment.

I though I'd try the ad lib barley plus ad lib barley straw method.

Gradually switched from hay to straw, phased in. Gradually the cattle ate less and less of it as they wouldn't touch the straw even though it seemed good quality to me. Gradually upped the barley ration. Initially the cattle ate a phenomenal amount as they were eating less and less fibre from the straw. Then they stalled with acidosis despite buffer in the ration at the correct rate and were stood around shouting for something, not eating the barley at all. So they have gone from eating 10 kg per day of barley fed in three feeds to eating next to nothing and acidosis.

So put a round bale of very second rate hay in the ring feeder last night. This morning half of it eaten and cattle contentedly cudding nicely. Still not eaten very much barley, but hope they will clean up what's left in the trough eventually and then I'll give them a bit more and hopefully build back up to where we were.

Moral of the story. Do what works for you, not what the "experts" or consensus opinion says.

Wish I'd never heard of ad lib feeding. Got them to 500 kg in 12 months on 3 feeds a day feeding to DM demand for body weight but have probably stood still for 10 days pissing about with this ad lib malarkey.

It's too easy with forums and the Internet in general to lose faith in your own "on the ground" judgement and rely on false prophets of which there are many.

Why did you switch from hay to straw?

 

[GTB]

We used to finish small numbers of cattle on adlib beef finisher nuts. We never had any problems (apart from the cost) and they ate like mad for the first few days then levelled off at about 10/15kg a day after that.

 

[DrWazzock]

Why did you switch from hay to straw?

I had run out of small bale hay and the advice was that the straw would stimulant the rumen more, being a stiffer material and would increase barley intake as it would be less palatable. The problem was the cattle wouldn't eat the straw at all. I think I have the balance right now with poor hay that they will eat, but not too much of it, then they will eat enough barley.

The problem with ad lib feeding separately of both the fodder and the barley, without a TMR system is that that they make their own mind up what proportion of each they will eat and isn't always the optimum for fattening.

Perhaps if I had stuck with straw from day one they would have carried on eating it, but once they had had some hay they wouldn't go back to straw. I am short of straw but have plenty of poor hay so it has worked out alright in the end.

I had been feeding small bales of hay before I switched to straw. I could ration the small bales of hay and get them to eat quite a lot of barley with out acidosis. But the poor hay is in rounds and difficult to ration as easier in a ring feeder but hopefully they will self ration on the hay and eat a good amount of barley.

I wish I had just stuck to feeding a rationed amount of barley and a rationed amount of small bales hay, but the small bales hay has run out or rather been requisitioned by the sheep department.

It's still a mystery why they wouldn't touch the straw in the round bales. They would eat small baked straw all day as younger calves at grass.

 

[gone up the hill]

I had run out of small bale hay and the advice was that the straw would stimulant the rumen more, being a stiffer material and would increase barley intake as it would be less palatable. The problem was the cattle wouldn't eat the straw at all. I think I have the balance right now with poor hay that they will eat, but not too much of it, then they will eat enough barley.

The problem with ad lib feeding separately of both the fodder and the barley, without a TMR system is that that they make their own mind up what proportion of each they will eat and isn't always the optimum for fattening.

Perhaps if I had stuck with straw from day one they would have carried on eating it, but once they had had some hay they wouldn't go back to straw. I am short of straw but have plenty of poor hay so it has worked out alright in the end.

I had been feeding small bales of hay before I switched to straw. I could ration the small bales of hay and get them to eat quite a lot of barley with out acidosis. But the poor hay is in rounds and difficult to ration as easier in a ring feeder but hopefully they will self ration on the hay and eat a good amount of barley.

I wish I had just stuck to feeding a rationed amount of barley and a rationed amount of small bales hay, but the small bales hay has run out or rather been requisitioned by the sheep department.

It's still a mystery why they wouldn't touch the straw in the round bales. They would eat small baked straw all day as younger calves at grass.

No reason at all to be feeding beef cattle 3 times a day!

Cattle will self ration on hay/ silage and barley, they will always eat the same amount of barley a day when they are properly on the ration ad lib.

What stomach balancer are you feeding?

 

[DrWazzock]

No reason at all to be feeding beef cattle 3 times a day!

Cattle will self ration on hay/ silage and barley, they will always eat the same amount of barley a day when they are properly on the ration ad lib.

What stomach balancer are you feeding?

I hope you are right. They are or presently refilling themselves on the hay and showing no interest in the barley. Hopefully they will arrive at some suitable balance. They seem content but at the moment their barley intake is too low as they are eating loads of hay. I can't remember the name of the balancer but it could have been "balance" from a light blue and white bag. Calcium carbonate, magnesium and glycerol something? Trying to feed 100g each per day plus 100g minerals. Over all barley ration includes 25 % lupin meal to give 15.9% protein and some raffanite to stick it. Where eating it well till I changed the rationed small ba,esmof hay for a big round of straw. Lovely straw but wouldn't touch it, would eat a mouldy small bale of straw used for bedding though.

 

[M-J-G]

I’m not 100% on the exact law but i’m Pretty sure you can’t transport animals in a box longer than 10ft (could be including 10ft?) without a petition to stop the animals surging backwards and forwards from 1 end of the box to the other.

Anything bigger than 12ft long needs to be divided, as far as I'm aware.

 

[gone up the hill]

I hope you are right. They are or presently refilling themselves on the hay and showing no interest in the barley. Hopefully they will arrive at some suitable balance. They seem content but at the moment their barley intake is too low as they are eating loads of hay. I can't remember the name of the balancer but it could have been "balance" from a light blue and white bag. Calcium carbonate, magnesium and glycerol something? Trying to feed 100g each per day plus 100g minerals. Over all barley ration includes 25 % lupin meal to give 15.9% protein and some raffanite to stick it. Where eating it well till I changed the rationed small ba,esmof hay for a big round of straw. Lovely straw but wouldn't touch it, would eat a mouldy small bale of straw used for bedding though.

They wont eat the barley for a few days if they have stomach problems, when that settles down they will start on the barley again.

You shouldn't have had stomach issues.

Bin both the raffinte and the calcium stuff and replace it with bicarb.

 

[M-J-G]

Well it's been an interesting experiment.

I though I'd try the ad lib barley plus ad lib barley straw method.

Gradually switched from hay to straw, phased in. Gradually the cattle ate less and less of it as they wouldn't touch the straw even though it seemed good quality to me. Gradually upped the barley ration. Initially the cattle ate a phenomenal amount as they were eating less and less fibre from the straw. Then they stalled with acidosis despite buffer in the ration at the correct rate and were stood around shouting for something, not eating the barley at all. So they have gone from eating 10 kg per day of barley fed in three feeds to eating next to nothing and acidosis.

So put a round bale of very second rate hay in the ring feeder last night. This morning half of it eaten and cattle contentedly cudding nicely. Still not eaten very much barley, but hope they will clean up what's left in the trough eventually and then I'll give them a bit more and hopefully build back up to where we were.

Moral of the story. Do what works for you, not what the "experts" or consensus opinion says.

Wish I'd never heard of ad lib feeding. Got them to 500 kg in 12 months on 3 feeds a day feeding to DM demand for body weight but have probably stood still for 10 days pissing about with this ad lib malarkey.

It's too easy with forums and the Internet in general to lose faith in your own "on the ground" judgement and rely on false prophets of which there are many.

Yes, its easy to give advice on a forum, particularly since you don't have to pay the price if your advice is wrong.

 

[multi power]

I had run out of small bale hay and the advice was that the straw would stimulant the rumen more, being a stiffer material and would increase barley intake as it would be less palatable. The problem was the cattle wouldn't eat the straw at all. I think I have the balance right now with poor hay that they will eat, but not too much of it, then they will eat enough barley.

The problem with ad lib feeding separately of both the fodder and the barley, without a TMR system is that that they make their own mind up what proportion of each they will eat and isn't always the optimum for fattening.

Perhaps if I had stuck with straw from day one they would have carried on eating it, but once they had had some hay they wouldn't go back to straw. I am short of straw but have plenty of poor hay so it has worked out alright in the end.

I had been feeding small bales of hay before I switched to straw. I could ration the small bales of hay and get them to eat quite a lot of barley with out acidosis. But the poor hay is in rounds and difficult to ration as easier in a ring feeder but hopefully they will self ration on the hay and eat a good amount of barley.

I wish I had just stuck to feeding a rationed amount of barley and a rationed amount of small bales hay, but the small bales hay has run out or rather been requisitioned by the sheep department.

It's still a mystery why they wouldn't touch the straw in the round bales. They would eat small baked straw all day as younger calves at grass.

Hay is for feeding
Straw is for bedding
I suspect your "poor hay" is quite a lot better than you think

 

[DrWazzock]

They are easing off the hay a bit now and are gradually increasing their barley intake again as their acidosis clears up. . Seem content and no acidosis. Letting them have the barley ad lib and hay adlib and looks like they will find the right balance themselves, I hope.

Switching to straw as the fodder was my mistake. Too much of a disturbance late in the finishing stage.

 

[DrWazzock]

Took them into market today at a year old. Weights 540 kg and 505 kg, both 176 p / kg.

Very satisfied considering they were dumpy fat little things and not continentals. They never ate more than 6 kg / day barley. I think they would have just piled on fat if I'd kept them any longer. They were from small framed British White mothers with Beef Shorthorn bull.

I backed off from full adlib to "just cleaning up" as they seemed happier and actually ate more that way. Fed meadow hay as it seemed to work best. Good ryegrass hay suppressed intake of barley. Straw was no good as they never ate enough. This was ring feeder and manger not TMR.

Just two left now. A very large framed 9 month old lad with no flesh on him yet and a runty little 7 month old from an old cow who was a bit short of milk. I reckon I'll turn them out onto a clover ley and keep feeding the barley out at grass.

Never had a needle near them.