Natural England knows best?

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Although I don't live far from @ajcc, I've not had any communication with him other than that which has been visible to all on TFF. I don't know him so never knowingly met him so I am not on this thread as some kind of stooge.
My interest in this case is that as BPS is phased out, it will be Natural England whom we will all have to deal with regards any payments and contracts and their reliability in this regard is crucial to us all.
If all the information in this thread is correct it seems to me that;

The national trust colluded with Natural England to influence a tenant.
Natural England did not expect to be challenged and subsequently had to change their argument as their original claims were false.
Assuming that NE spending over £1/3 million bullying is not what he refers to as being leaned on, it would seem that NE are quite prepared to involve other parties to try and resolve their mess. I imagine that this extra pressure is being exerted to hope that a settlement is reached with an NDA to stop the truth from being exposed. They would need to do this as their actions are close to criminal.

Would anyone really volunteer to deal with such an organisation?
It might be worth the risk for some large reward but when you consider the derisory amounts on offer......

I always considered that the main reason for having a union was to have someone help if you should be badly treated by those in authority. I consider this a pivotal case which could prevent a Post Office style disaster happening in the future.
If necessary, I would certainly consider forwarding the price of NFU membership into a fund to get this sorted.
 
Last edited:

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Although I don't live far from @ajcc, I've not had any communication with him other than that which has been visible to all on TFF. I don't know him so never knowingly met him so I am not on this thread as some kind of stooge.
My interest in this case is that as BPS is phased out, it will be Natural England whom we will all have to deal with regards any payments and contracts and their reliability in this regard is crucial to us all.
If all the information in this thread is correct it seems to me that;

The national trust colluded with Natural England to influence a tenant.
Natural England did not expect to be challenged and subsequently had to change their argument as their original claims were false.
Assuming that NE spending over £1/3 million bullying is not what he refers to as being leaned on, it would seem that NE are quite prepared to involve other parties to try and resolve their mess. I imagine that this extra pressure is being exerted to hope that a settlement is reached with an NDA to stop the truth from being exposed. They would need to do this as their actions are close to criminal.

Would anyone really volunteer to deal with such an organisation?
It might be worth the risk for some large reward but when you consider the derisory amounts on offer......

I always considered that the main reason for having a union was to have someone help if you should be badly treated by those in authority. I consider this a pivotal case which could prevent a Post Office style disaster happening in the future.
If necessary, I would certainly consider forwarding the price of NFU membership into a fund to get this sorted.

I may have missed it, but is @ajcc a member of the NFU? And, if so, have they been involved at all?

I don’t disagree with your post at all, but those details are important before everyone piles in slag off the NFU (again).
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
I may have missed it, but is @ajcc a member of the NFU? And, if so, have they been involved at all?

I don’t disagree with your post at all, but those details are important before everyone piles in slag off the NFU (again).

I don't know but;

Frank-the-Wool said:
Are you being helped by NFU/CLA/TFA?
ajcc replied "TFA know a fair bit about the case, I have legal protection insurance with them....but....."

Which suggests not.

I'm deeply unhappy with the NFU with respect to Red Tractor and this will probably cause me to not renew my membership.
My comment was meant to show that I considered this was a worthy cause to spend that membership money on, rather than be a comment on the NFU with respect to this case as they may not even be aware of it. I know my local branch secretary knew nothing about it when I asked.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
I don't know but;


ajcc replied "TFA know a fair bit about the case, I have legal protection insurance with them....but....."

Which suggests not.

I'm deeply unhappy with the NFU with respect to Red Tractor and this will probably cause me to not renew my membership.
My comment was meant to show that I considered this was a worthy cause to spend that membership money rather be a comment on the NFU with respect to this case as they may not even be aware of it. I know my local branch secretary knew nothing about it when I asked.

I agree that it may well be a case that needs fighting by our representatives, but if they don’t know about it, and/or the affected farmer isn’t a member, then it’s not likely to happen.
One could perhaps argue that as a good reason why we should all get behind one body, but this thread isn’t the place for that debate.

I wasn’t referring to your post as ‘anti-NFU’ at all, just anticipating the usual tirade to follow… :rolleyes:
 
Location
East Mids
Change your solicitor your paying too much.
No, we needed an agricultural specialist, someone who knows what he is doing, for a complicated partnership dissolution and land transfers, along with capital tax expertise. Not a small time market town solicitor who spends most of his time on house transactions and divorces; too much at stake to get it wrong.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
No, we needed an agricultural specialist, someone who knows what he is doing, for a complicated partnership dissolution and land transfers, along with capital tax expertise. Not a small time market town solicitor who spends most of his time on house transactions and divorces; too much at stake to get it wrong.

Spot on. I use a solicitor for land related issues who is around 275/hour... and worth it, especially if the other side is paying his fees :) Quick and very thorough, which is not a given for Solicitors I am afraid.
 

lloyd

Member
Location
Herefordshire
No, we needed an agricultural specialist, someone who knows what he is doing, for a complicated partnership dissolution and land transfers, along with capital tax expertise. Not a small time market town solicitor who spends most of his time on house transactions and divorces; too much at stake to get it wrong.

Women can be solicitors too you know and some are
very good at all the above. ;)
Shiny new offices mean very little unless you like being
treated as a number rather than a person.
 

Hfd Cattle

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Hereford
I agree that it may well be a case that needs fighting by our representatives, but if they don’t know about it, and/or the affected farmer isn’t a member, then it’s not likely to happen.
One could perhaps argue that as a good reason why we should all get behind one body, but this thread isn’t the place for that debate.

I wasn’t referring to your post as ‘anti-NFU’ at all, just anticipating the usual tirade to follow… :rolleyes:
NFU ...... who are they ? 😊😊😊
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
Although I don't live far from @ajcc, I've not had any communication with him other than that which has been visible to all on TFF. I don't know him so never knowingly met him so I am not on this thread as some kind of stooge.
My interest in this case is that as BPS is phased out, it will be Natural England whom we will all have to deal with regards any payments and contracts and their reliability in this regard is crucial to us all.
If all the information in this thread is correct it seems to me that;

The national trust colluded with Natural England to influence a tenant.
Natural England did not expect to be challenged and subsequently had to change their argument as their original claims were false.
Assuming that NE spending over £1/3 million bullying is not what he refers to as being leaned on, it would seem that NE are quite prepared to involve other parties to try and resolve their mess. I imagine that this extra pressure is being exerted to hope that a settlement is reached with an NDA to stop the truth from being exposed. They would need to do this as their actions are close to criminal.

Would anyone really volunteer to deal with such an organisation?
It might be worth the risk for some large reward but when you consider the derisory amounts on offer......

I always considered that the main reason for having a union was to have someone help if you should be badly treated by those in authority. I consider this a pivotal case which could prevent a Post Office style disaster happening in the future.
If necessary, I would certainly consider forwarding the price of NFU membership into a fund to get this sorted.
As I have said previously its not just Natural England its standard policy within government bodies. In my case with the Forestry Commission which I took to task at a Confor meeting. Representatives from both NFU and CLA where on the panel with numerous Forestry Commission bods who all denied there was a problem and discredited my accusation. That was until the CLA rep let rip and really put them on the spot quoting numerous cases from CLA members. It was noticeable the lack of comment from the NFU rep. I will not be signing up to any of these new schemes whilst these defective clauses are still in the agreements.
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
Women can be solicitors too you know and some are
very good at all the above. ;)
Shiny new offices mean very little unless you like being
treated as a number rather than a person.
Not found a decent solicitor yet but plenty of fraudulent solicitors prepared to lie in court being heard by judges who are also solicitors presided over by the SRA run for the benefit of solicitors.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
TFF grass roots group, I thank you for raising the profile of these cases. Any added pressure to achieve openness and transparency is most welcome on my part from any and every quarter. Thank you.
You are most welcome.

SOMEONE had to raise the issue and the "industry representatives" seemed unwilling to......

How can ANY agri-environment policy succeed if we can't trust the authorities?
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
You are most welcome.

SOMEONE had to raise the issue and the "industry representatives" seemed unwilling to......

How can ANY agri-environment policy succeed if we can't trust the authorities?
Well the legal system is certainly broken. I will give you a simple accounting challenge based on real facts from a dishonest solicitor. All you have to do is guess whether the solicitor is owed any money and if so how much.

Period 1 Invoice 2325 cleared bank payment 2325

Period 2 Invoice 7231 cleared bank payments 7400

Period 3 Invoice 4219.30 credit note 4275
 

ajcc

Member
Livestock Farmer
I would agree “at present “from my perspective the legal system when it’s required to produce “justice” cannot be relied upon to be fit for purpose.
Solicitors rely on getting away with “playing dirty” which is somewhat shocking eye opener to honest normal folk. Yes the establishment seems to condone their practices even their malpractices. Not least Natural England.
“(getting dodgy ground for me!)”
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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