Natural England knows best?

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
I've always been keen to farm in a sensitive way that protects and enhances my surrroundings.
I went to an NE meeting promoting mid & higher tier schemes and was absolutely gobsmacked by the way the NE staff didn't even bother to try and hide their utter disdain and dislike of us farmers.
This was before the Q&A when I asked how we could cancel an agreement should we need to.
Her response was of disbelief and disgust at why anyone would ever contemplate such a thing but did eventually say that it MIGHT be possible if you repaid all payments and received benefits.

That attitude is why I have not been in a scheme since.
 

Ukjay

Member
Location
Wales!
In my case no revision of the original agreement just a letter to say what the new rules are with failure to comply resulting in my compensation payment being stopped. Hence my payment was stopped in 2015.

Is that not against their own terms and conditions, thus against the law?
 

Ukjay

Member
Location
Wales!
That is entirely in line with clause 21 of the T's & C's of their standard "agreement".

Only as long as the letter notifying changes was issued in advanced clearly stating ammendments and the agreement holder accepted them by continuing to take monies and prior to loss of payment.
If they simply gave notice at the point of stopping payment - then it did not follow their terms imho.
As with everything - devil in the details.
 

ajcc

Member
Livestock Farmer
Here is my farming conundrum of today.
2A04004F-4584-4861-9C26-8EDE41709540.jpeg
3EE43B5C-1E2A-4274-B57F-4F2380D0D494.jpeg

(Cattle were outwintered here on fodder beet)
Now what would any right minded reasonably competent farmer do to these fields in cultivation management terms?
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
Ceasing payment is almost acceptable, essentially backdating and asking for repayment for not acceding to the changes, is not....
It was totally unacceptable the new rules required a signed audit report from a qualified accountant on an annual basis the cost of which was more than the statuatory compensation being made. They get away with it as the courts are stitched up by the government so justice is virtually impossible when up against government bodies.
 

ajcc

Member
Livestock Farmer
It was totally unacceptable the new rules required a signed audit report from a qualified accountant on an annual basis the cost of which was more than the statuatory compensation being made. They get away with it as the courts are stitched up by the government so justice is virtually impossible when up against government bodies.
You got it in a nutshell.....the land in the pictures all left any agreement in September 2012 there are NO designated protections.....nearly 9 years later it has a court order on it saying it can only be “chain harrowed!”
So agriculturalists pray tell me how to establish anything with chain harrows!
“Natural England knows best!”
 

e3120

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northumberland
You got it in a nutshell.....the land in the pictures all left any agreement in September 2012 there are NO designated protections.....nearly 9 years later it has a court order on it saying it can only be “chain harrowed!”
So agriculturalists pray tell me how to establish anything with chain harrows!
“Natural England knows best!”
I suppose if one was belligerent enough, it would be possible to build a set of "chain harrows" capable of a fairly max-till result. I think there are a few readers that would gladly assist.
 

Al R

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Wales
Here is my farming conundrum of today.View attachment 956997View attachment 956996
(Cattle were outwintered here on fodder beet)
Now what would any right minded reasonably competent farmer do to these fields in cultivation management terms?
DD maize, but only show the picture of the chain Harrow working. For the sake of the exercise I would find a chain Harrow from somewhere and go to the middle of the field and do 30’ and take a picture like the second picture with your farm and hedges in the background so 100% it’s definitely that field you’ve chain harrowed. DD maize or DD corn/grass into it👍🏻
 

Nearly

Member
Location
North of York
DD maize, but only show the picture of the chain Harrow working. For the sake of the exercise I would find a chain Harrow from somewhere and go to the middle of the field and do 30’ and take a picture like the second picture with your farm and hedges in the background so 100% it’s definitely that field you’ve chain harrowed. DD maize or DD corn/grass into it👍🏻
If they're going to treat you like a crim then you might as well behave like one.
 

Bill the Bass

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
I think that @Clive needs to get a few question posed for David Kenneday and Janet ??? at the next Q&A session with them... ASAP!

Possibly they and others, are not really aware of the implications of the EIA on agreements in the long term, or (putting on conspiracy headgear) is the agenda there, to remove large swathes of farm land and lock it into unproductive "cropping", and not pay for it into the future??
Collectively, defra and it’s various bodies are not intelligent enough to have an ‘agenda’. They are literally making this (elms etc) up as they go.

I suspect many designing elm don’t know what anEIA is.
 

Banana Bar

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Yes. All should think on that when considering signing up for any payment rates offered.

I wonder what would happen, theoretically, if a large proportion of farmers expressed interest in ELMS then returned the offer document with identical changes to the terms and conditions saying they would only sign up if the conditions were changed as proposed. If enough did that would it force a re-think if the alternative was the scheme being a failure? There needs to be open engagement about this issue right now between us all and DEFRA.

I think DEFRA want ELMS to fail. It would appear to me that ELMS will likely be situated on the poorest ground and around margins of fields ( in an arable situation). When we have no BPS these areas will be uneconomic to farm therefore they will be left to naturally regenerate, and therefore eventually create the habitat that has been desired from the start, all at no cost!

BB
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Is it possible for a landlord to be in ELMS with an FBT tenant, or do they have to resort to a grazing licence?
One of many things yet to be decided. The aim appears to be for ELMS agreements of significant length, a) to allow time for the "public goods" to be realised and b) to prevent chopping and changing. That will not fit with short term land tenure unless the system allows the landlord to be the claimant and the tenancy to be subject to compliance with the management actions necessary to comply with ELMs delivery (maybe at a much reduced rent in recognition).

It's all very uncertain just yet hence the trials and pilot schemes.

It could work very well. It could also become a slow motion car crash.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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