Natural England knows best?

[Jackov Altraids]

Any time money changes hands it is counted under GDP (if the government knows about it).

Which is why goods and service industries are considered equal when they clearly are not.

An over generalisation but goods create money, services circulate it.

And every pound created in a country, is likely to be one that isn't imported which makes it worth double to the balance of payments.

 

[Goweresque]

Any time money changes hands it is counted under GDP (if the government knows about it).

Thats not correct. GDP is value added, not turnover. If it was turnover then the UK's GDP would be massive due to all the stocks, shares and currency traded in the City. For example the Forex market turns over $3 trillion per day in London.

What is GDP?

Perhaps the most talked about economic concept. But what is it and how do we measure it?

www.bankofengland.co.uk

London FX turnover hits new high as commodity currency trading soars

Trading on London's foreign exchange market reached a record high in April of $3 trillion in average daily turnover, the Bank of England said on Tuesday, with significant rises in dollar, sterling, Japanese yen and commodity-linked currency volumes.

www.reuters.com

The biggest con in GDP calculations is how they account for State spending. As government departments do not make profits, they assume that whatever they spend adds that much to GDP. Thus you get the situation whereby if the government increases spending on the NHS, GDP goes up, even if not one extra patient gets treated as a result. That being said, during covid for the first time ever the ONS attempted to assess the actual drop in output from the NHS/State education etc and incorporated that into the figures. Its one of the reasons the UK suffered the biggest drop in GDP output during covid - no other country bothered to account for the drop in output in the State sector, even if teachers weren't teaching they still assumed the education budget was adding to GDP.

 

[JP1]

Drawing this to a conclusion, sadly it looks like Mr Potter has lost his battle

https://www.facebook.com/FellPonyHeritageTrust/photos/a.606102319587197/1793515350845882

 

[steveR]

Thanks.

I can't see why they shouldn't pay for the same action myself so long as the action is being done. Both funders may be gaining different benefits from the same action. I think that the rules as described so far risk putting many farmers off.

Your water company scheme example is a good one. Say you agree to plant diverse cover crops. DEFRA may be asking you to do it to improve soil health and ecological diversity. The water company are asking you to do it to mop up free nutrients and reduce soil runoff risk. It's a single action delivering different benefits to different bodies which they are both willing to fund.

Just needs some creative form filling come SFI time.... I think I have the equivilant of an NVQ Level 6 in form filling nowadays...

 

[steveR]

That’s the problem there is a dealing with Defra/rpa hassle factor, at the moment the sfi payments being so crap don’t exceed that for me. Therefore they can shove it all up their arse

C'mon @Wombat , tell us what you really think now....

 

[ajcc]

Drawing this to a conclusion, sadly it looks like Mr Potter has lost his battle

https://www.facebook.com/FellPonyHeritageTrust/photos/a.606102319587197/1793515350845882

Meanwhile down in Devon. ....Ten years after conclusion of css agreement with Natural England this farmer is still forced to fight for justice and the right to work his holding.

 

[yellowbelly]

Meanwhile down in Devon. ....Ten years after conclusion of css agreement with Natural England this farmer is still forced to fight for justice and the right to work his holding.View attachment 1037250

What has this country come to when a shower of sh!t like NE can try and make a farmer, doing what farmers do (ie. farming) a criminal offence?

If there's any justice left in this world, I hope the judge has the common sense to throw the whole thing out and award hefty damages against NE for wasting evertbody's time

Best of luck to you.

 

[renewablejohn]

Meanwhile down in Devon. ....Ten years after conclusion of css agreement with Natural England this farmer is still forced to fight for justice and the right to work his holding.View attachment 1037250

I find this so wrong. Why must you have leave to Appeal. If we believe that we live in a democracy than it should be a statuatory right to be able to Appeal any case otherwise Justice cannot be served. We used to have such a system but to many bent judges were being highlighted by the Appeals system so the easy solution was to quash the automatic right to Appeal and let the bent judges decide whether there bent mates should be subject to scrutiny. AJCC best of luck you have done well even to get a hearing in London. Make sure your MP is fully aware of your case and make as much noise about your case as possible.

 

[Levelsman]

Hope you were successful in finding a good Counsel.

 

[renewablejohn]

Hope you were successful in finding a good Counsel.

If you have found a good Counsel then please let me know because I am really struggling to find such a person.

 

[ajcc]

Update if anyone still interested. Refused permission to appeal on Thursday at Royal Courts Justice...Natural England knows best and still retains its stance that entering any agreement with it can have dire unforeseen implications.
Look out if they want your land you need deep pockets well over 400k of taxpayers monies confirmed in legal fees spend too date on one individual.

 

[steveR]

Update if anyone still interested. Refused permission to appeal on Thursday at Royal Courts Justice...Natural England knows best and still retains its stance that entering any agreement with it can have dire unforeseen implications.
Look out if they want your land you need deep pockets well over 400k of taxpayers monies confirmed in legal fees spend too date on one individual.

One would hope that your MP would show interest, but I suspect I know the answer....

 

[renewablejohn]

Update if anyone still interested. Refused permission to appeal on Thursday at Royal Courts Justice...Natural England knows best and still retains its stance that entering any agreement with it can have dire unforeseen implications.
Look out if they want your land you need deep pockets well over 400k of taxpayers monies confirmed in legal fees spend too date on one individual.

Just confirms my opinion that the justice system in the Uk is totally broken. At least you managed to take it to the Royal Court I have not even managed that yet. Does not help with so many MP's having a legal background and looking after there legal "mates".

 

[yellowbelly]

Update if anyone still interested. Refused permission to appeal on Thursday at Royal Courts Justice...Natural England knows best and still retains its stance that entering any agreement with it can have dire unforeseen implications.
Look out if they want your land you need deep pockets well over 400k of taxpayers monies confirmed in legal fees spend too date on one individual.

So, where does that leave you now @ajcc ?

Have you exhausted all avenues available now?
Or have you just lost the will to keep going? (Could quite understand if you have).

 

[ajcc]

So, where does that leave you now @ajcc ?

Have you exhausted all avenues available now?
Or have you just lost the will to keep going? (Could quite understand if you have).

In limbo.....same place I have been for over ten years....no resolution.
The whole situation is really a quite laughable stalemate.

 

[Vader]

Does @Janet Hughes Defra know about this..?
not saying she can fix it, but can see why farmers dont trust NE/rpa/defra

 

[steveR]

Does @Janet Hughes Defra know about this..?
not saying she can fix it, but can see why farmers dont trust NE/rpa/defra

I would be pretty certain Janet Hughes will be well aware of the basics of this case, as it has been pointed to frequently, as have other lesser instances. I think that these may well have been considered from what Janet has said about a more balanced approach to inspections and penalties in the future world of SFI....

Fine words and I believe she will be keen that this is the case, but then the Rules get written and are interpreted totally different from those originally envisaged....

 

[Steevo]

I would be pretty certain Janet Hughes will be well aware of the basics of this case, as it has been pointed to frequently, as have other lesser instances. I think that these may well have been considered from what Janet has said about a more balanced approach to inspections and penalties in the future world of SFI....

Fine words and I believe she will be keen that this is the case, but then the Rules get written and are interpreted totally different from those originally envisaged....

Imagine if farmers all refused to enter any environmental schemes unless this mess (and all of the others) was sorted out.

Such cases shouldn’t be swept under the carpet and moved on from.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I would be pretty certain Janet Hughes will be well aware of the basics of this case, as it has been pointed to frequently, as have other lesser instances. I think that these may well have been considered from what Janet has said about a more balanced approach to inspections and penalties in the future world of SFI....

Fine words and I believe she will be keen that this is the case, but then the Rules get written and are interpreted totally different from those originally envisaged....

But according to Janet, it is Defra that get their statutory advice from NE.

I think everyone should be rather worried.

Hi - I feel your pain on keeping up with the threads, I feel like I am woefully failing on that front despite best efforts!

The delivery partners (sorry for using unhelpful jargon) are the RPA, who administer schemes, and also Natural England, Forestry Commission and Environment Agency who provide expert input to scheme design (along with farmers, stakeholders and other experts) and have a role in providing statutory advice (and other functions) eg in respect of SSSI sites, woodland creation and maintenance, and watercourse protection

 

[Steevo]

But according to Janet, it is Defra that get their statutory advice from NE.

I think everyone should be rather worried.

“expert”

Yeah right…..