Need Advice, Indian Farm land, noobs to farming!

[infiniteConciously]

So I am a born and bred in the land of Essex and of Indian ethnicity. My grandad left me and my dad a farm back on "the mothership" I'm thinking of going to India to see what opportunities there are with farming there and automation.

We mainly farm root veg, wheat, peanuts, millet, veg, sunflower, etc using traditionally techniques. Basically flooding the land with water from a well that refills once a year during monsoon season.

Generally speaking, a lot of water is wasted this way and there will eventually be a water crisis in India if a lot of farmers continue to farm this way.

Weeding, seeding etc is done by hand!!!! Sometimes they even burn the crops to get rid of the weeds which generates ridiculous amounts of pollution.

Anyone have any suggestions on any automation machinery that can help? I am thinking of spending a whole year out there and blog what i learn about indian agriculture. So just looking for any advice!

Sikkim is a bit of thought leader here, the state has gone full organic and very advanced in what they do so i'd like to get out there also... everywhere else, a lot is still done by hand!!

 

[infiniteConciously]

I have zero farming experience in the UK, but its always been my plan to get involved in the farming side of things out there. Just appreciate any input from anyone really... as i know zero farmers in the uk.

 

[vaderstad]

Good luck with your venture. The Israelis have done a lot of work on micro-irrigation. Here's an introduction: https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/how-israel-can-help-a-thirsty-world-1.5392651

 

[onesiedale]

Sounds a fair project to undertake from scratch
You say the land is in Sikkim? That's Himalayan foothills? How much ground?

 

[Exfarmer]

Having just got back from a 3 weekholiday there, I saw a lot of farming but would not claim to have any in depth knowledge.
It did seem a huge amount was done by hand using some practices which would be very hard work for someone not born and bought up to it..
The bulk of crop weeding seemed to be done by hand and the weeds taken back to the farm to be chopped up that night to feed the cow(s).
The cow dung, would be mixed with chopped straw made into patties and left to dry in the sun for cooking fuel. This was all done by hand
I understand that farms are limited to 45 acres by law so this strctly limits mechanisation and we only saw 2 combines in a journey of perhaps a 1,000 miles. Most crops are cut by hand , then fed into into a stationery thresher.
I would be dubious about claims of organic, other countries have decidedly different ideas to what we think it implies. Insects such as locusts require a very strong defence or they will decimate a crop .
Years ago people starved, today it is not acceptable.
You are correct that flood irrigation is the norm even for crops such as wheat and obviously rice needs very large quantities of water, but the monsoon brings huge quantites. As you rightly say there is a heavy reliance on Tanks ( reservoirs ) and wells.
I should not worry about burning crop residues, you wait till you see the brick yard stacks smoking away. We did not see any stubble burning as the straw was far too valuable, much chopped to go into the bricks!
Most of India can grow a huge range of crops due to the temperature but you have to remember the value of the produce is very low compared to Britain probably 1-5% of what you would expect to pay in the UK , so sadly you are unlikely to make very big sums.
If I was going to give any advice I would aim at tourism . We had a fantastic stay in Rhajastan in a village , it may seem boring to you, but plenty of Western people pay very big money for that sort of genuine experience.
I wish you luck Please keep us posted.

 

[Treg]

So I am a born and bred in the land of Essex and of Indian ethnicity. My grandad left me and my dad a farm back on "the mothership" I'm thinking of going to India to see what opportunities there are with farming there and automation.

We mainly farm root veg, wheat, peanuts, millet, veg, sunflower, etc using traditionally techniques. Basically flooding the land with water from a well that refills once a year during monsoon season.

Generally speaking, a lot of water is wasted this way and there will eventually be a water crisis in India if a lot of farmers continue to farm this way.

Weeding, seeding etc is done by hand!!!! Sometimes they even burn the crops to get rid of the weeds which generates ridiculous amounts of pollution.

Anyone have any suggestions on any automation machinery that can help? I am thinking of spending a whole year out there and blog what i learn about indian agriculture. So just looking for any advice!

Sikkim is a bit of thought leader here, the state has gone full organic and very advanced in what they do so i'd like to get out there also... everywhere else, a lot is still done by hand!!

I'm sure someone posted similar a while back, somebody mite remember as it would be useful for you both to hear each other's experiences. Also please let us know how you get on as it's interesting for us to hear about farming in different climates.
Good luck & enjoy the journey

 

[PSQ]

Also please let us know how you get on as it's interesting for us to hear about farming in different climates.
Good luck & enjoy the journey

I'll second that.
Please post up a link to your blog, it's always interesting to see and read about farmers / farming around the globe.
And good luck!

 

[infiniteConciously]

Good luck with your venture. The Israelis have done a lot of work on micro-irrigation. Here's an introduction: https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/how-israel-can-help-a-thirsty-world-1.5392651

Thanks this is exactly the type of thing I am looking for.

Sounds a fair project to undertake from scratch

Yeah massive project from scratch, but it's always been something i've loved. Since an early age as well. I've been going back and forth since I was about 5 years old back in the 80s, we always visited every 18months or so, was kinda drummed into me at young that we've been farmers for generations and generations..... and if you have nothing in terms of income.... you'll always have roof over your head and food on your table so you never give up on farming. Always gave me a warm feeling knowing that whilst growing up in Essex with absolutely sweet fa money to our name. Now, 40 years later, I'm living comfortably but I still want to maintain that attitude and maybe it will rub off on my kids or something!!

My actual land is north east of india, Sikkim is north west india. I mentioned sikkim as they've got a really forward thinking attitude to farming, which is seriously unique in India given some of the stuff i've seen over the years. little bbc insert below, i'd like to get out there (to sikkim) at some point as well to see if i can learn anything!! plus the views will be amazing!

Having just got back from a 3 weekholiday there, I saw a lot of farming but would not claim to have any in depth knowledge.
It did seem a huge amount was done by hand using some practices which would be very hard work for someone not born and bought up to it..
The bulk of crop weeding seemed to be done by hand and the weeds taken back to the farm to be chopped up that night to feed the cow(s).
The cow dung, would be mixed with chopped straw made into patties and left to dry in the sun for cooking fuel. This was all done by hand
I understand that farms are limited to 45 acres by law so this strctly limits mechanisation and we only saw 2 combines in a journey of perhaps a 1,000 miles. Most crops are cut by hand , then fed into into a stationery thresher.
I would be dubious about claims of organic, other countries have decidedly different ideas to what we think it implies. Insects such as locusts require a very strong defence or they will decimate a crop .
Years ago people starved, today it is not acceptable.
You are correct that flood irrigation is the norm even for crops such as wheat and obviously rice needs very large quantities of water, but the monsoon brings huge quantites. As you rightly say there is a heavy reliance on Tanks ( reservoirs ) and wells.
I should not worry about burning crop residues, you wait till you see the brick yard stacks smoking away. We did not see any stubble burning as the straw was far too valuable, much chopped to go into the bricks!
Most of India can grow a huge range of crops due to the temperature but you have to remember the value of the produce is very low compared to Britain probably 1-5% of what you would expect to pay in the UK , so sadly you are unlikely to make very big sums.
If I was going to give any advice I would aim at tourism . We had a fantastic stay in Rhajastan in a village , it may seem boring to you, but plenty of Western people pay very big money for that sort of genuine experience.
I wish you luck Please keep us posted.

Not boring at all! Thanks this, it is really insightful, I looked through your thread. Amazing pictures and info!! Its shame i didnt see your thread when you was out there, my father has been on the farm since November'18 and if you was in the same state you would've been welcome to spend some time on the farm and stay at our place, there facilities nearby are nice in terms of food etc. not much in terms of tourism though.

My family ancestry is actually originally from somewhere near the region of amber, jaipur, udipur...I hope to go there one day again and find out a little bit more! As we migrated away from there about 1000 years ago but the stories of why have been really difficult retrace. To be honest, i'm not really doing this to make money or anything like that, so I'd prefer to avoid tourism at all costs... I'm really passionate about a few things when it comes to india as i've seen her change soo much over the last 35 years. 1. farming, 2. organic produce, 3 agricultural automation, 4. medical care and equality for all, 5. most importantly of all education/pollution.

So i'd like to concentrate my time on these things. The pollution is crazy and smells when your are riding through towns and stuff is just pure rank.

It's funny because its not always been like that. I remember going for the first time around 1986 or 87. We had no toilet, there were flies everywhere, i mean everywhere and it wasn't a great experience for me on a personal level. But I remember, we only had like 3 or 4 people with motorbikes and 1 car between all of my fathers cousins. And my grandfather had this amazing white horse and cart, i used to love it.
Another thing i remember, probably one of the most vivid memories of my life is waking up for a pee at night and being told there is no toilet so you have to go outside to relieve yourself... so i'm doing my business behind this straw hut thing and i look up and the sky.... oh my god the sky... it was soo clear and like something like the northern lights... it was an incredible sight, just stars everywhere and soo clear like you could touch them.

I'm sure someone posted similar a while back, somebody mite remember as it would be useful for you both to hear each other's experiences. Also please let us know how you get on as it's interesting for us to hear about farming in different climates.
Good luck & enjoy the journey

That might have been me, I mentioned it in the introductory thread. If you can find the link to thread let me know, i would love it if there is someone else trying to do something similar that i can bump heads with!!

I will def keep this thread updated and share some stories pictures on how things are going. And what I am learning etc.

 

[Bald Rick]

Family used to farm cotton in Pakistan
Far better (& cheaper) to use women to pick than a mechanical harvester as they would only select the ripe boles and were thus able to go through the crop 4-5 times
Downside was the odd casualty due to cobra/kraut bites and wild pigs could make a mess

 

[Will Wilson]

Please tell us about how you get on!

 

[Princess Pooper]

Does anyone know if there is a field veg / hortic equivalent of the Croptec show to direct the op to?

 

[infiniteConciously]

Family used to farm cotton in Pakistan
Far better (& cheaper) to use women to pick than a mechanical harvester as they would only select the ripe boles and were thus able to go through the crop 4-5 times
Downside was the odd casualty due to cobra/kraut bites and wild pigs could make a mess

Yeah in our region we normally have families come to farm the land for a pre agreed % of the produce sales. They come from MP, UP as these states are not as well off. Its sad to see some of these families as they refuse to send their kids to school and get them working on the farms. We used to farm Cotton as well. not recently though,

Please tell us about how you get on!

will do, will try and post some pictures asap.

Does anyone know if there is a field veg / hortic equivalent of the Croptec show to direct the op to?

would love to know about this if there is something equivalent.

 

[Princess Pooper]

might be worth you going to Croptec anyway if you are still around in UK in Nov, there are some irrigation / water conservation firms there and lots of innovative ideas for resource conservation

 

[infiniteConciously]

Yeah i was just thinking that, i'll have a look through the exhibition list as well! thank this is useful

 

[Exfarmer]

I really think for good ideas a trip to japan would be useful. There they have similar issues of scale, but thanks to a very generous govenment they have mechanised on an incredible scale. Looking in there fields it appears just a miniature versuon of European farming, ( except for the rice paddies)

 

[Kidds]

The main driving force of automation is the cost of labour. That is why so much is still done by hand in India.
Nothing wrong with hand weeding, I’ve done it for most of my life on a field scale. Apart from the cost that is!

 

[Danllan]

Family used to farm cotton in Pakistan
Far better (& cheaper) to use women to pick than a mechanical harvester as they would only select the ripe boles and were thus able to go through the crop 4-5 times
Downside was the odd casualty due to cobra/kraut bites and wild pigs could make a mess

Bl*ody Germans, vicious bast*rds!

 

[Exfarmer]

The main driving force of automation is the cost of labour. That is why so much is still done by hand in India.
Nothing wrong with hand weeding, I’ve done it for most of my life on a field scale. Apart from the cost that is!

Bl*ody Germans, vicious bast*rds!

think he meant Krait

 

[capfits]

I think each of the states has a University that seeks to be a source of knowledge transfer. So that direction first.
You may know better than me, but I thought some of the states did not allow overseas ownership, so something to check out aswell.
There is so much hand labour because there is plenty of it and it is cheap. A donkey cost twice as much an hour as a man when I was out there 9 years ago.
Punjab had a reasonable amount of mechanisation, but then it is flat and productive. You still saw too hand applying fertiliser or using knapsack to apply pesticides etc.
All the best and let us know how it goes.

 

[infiniteConciously]

I really think for good ideas a trip to japan would be useful. There they have similar issues of scale, but thanks to a very generous govenment they have mechanised on an incredible scale. Looking in there fields it appears just a miniature versuon of European farming, ( except for the rice paddies)

Thanks - really great suggestions from you, i will be checking this out!!

The main driving force of automation is the cost of labour. That is why so much is still done by hand in India.
Nothing wrong with hand weeding, I’ve done it for most of my life on a field scale. Apart from the cost that is!

Yeh, looking forward to getting my hands cut!

I think each of the states has a University that seeks to be a source of knowledge transfer. So that direction first.

This is great info thanks, i'll be looking into this and deffo trying to contact the sikkim university first!

You may know better than me, but I thought some of the states did not allow overseas ownership, so something to check out aswell.

Yeah, so the farm in question has been in my family since around the 1950s (I think), I know my dad was about 4 when my grandfather built the house on the land. Basically if you are a descendant of a farmer with ownership you have automatic ownership rights/but it depends from state to state and can be excessively complicated. It's all very complicated and i leave all that to my parents. I and my father have zero intentions of ever selling the farm so its all pretty simple for us to be honest. I'd just like to promote farming to my kids, and then see how things pan out in the future.

Farming has basically been our trade for generations and generations, all of my distant cousins are farmers... those who sold up... have told me soo many times they wish they never did. As getting back into it is soo hard. Its just myself and my dad that stepped away from the trade, but would be nice to carry on what we've been doing for a long time! My father was actually married off to my mother and sent away from the family so if there was a drought for a couple of years my dad could send money back to keep things ticking over. Which he was true to, so its nice to see him get back there now and chilling out with his fam. And when he comes back to the uk i'll get out there.

There is so much hand labour because there is plenty of it and it is cheap. A donkey cost twice as much an hour as a man when I was out there 9 years ago.
Punjab had a reasonable amount of mechanisation, but then it is flat and productive. You still saw too hand applying fertiliser or using knapsack to apply pesticides etc.
All the best and let us know how it goes.

Thanks, not actually gonna get out there until june/july... but just doing the some research and ground work now.

Unfortunately the poverty gap is huge out there, I mean huge. When you see kids doing the manual labour instead of getting a chance to break the monstrosity of poverty and get a serious education and build a prosperous future... it makes you feel sick... but you become immune to it the more you witness it. Life is tough over there, in different ways but if you work hard there are opportunities, limited ones. I guess sleeping rough in London during winter is probably much harder than being homeless in India - as theres places you can pitch up in india and build a house out of whatever you can find and weather is warmer so being outside is manageable. But yeah my point is, just because the labour is cheap..... if you feel like you can make a difference, you have to try and take it and do something about it, dont you? I know i'll do something with education out there, even if its just something simple like teaching english in a few random schools (once my own kids are all grown up). Combining something with education and farming would be my ultimate dream i think.

The other factor is that just because labour is cheap now, doesnt mean it will always be like that... with the way inflation is going and what we pay here in the UK for a bag of crisps... this scares the life out of me. Wars are normally fought at the end of fiat currency cycles when hyper inflation kicks in. And if you are born into a family thats been in poverty for 3 generations doing manual labour 7 days a week for food and a roof and paid very little... wheres does the hope come from for future generations? India is in its 1990s right now with workforce and labour markets etc... I think... but what happens to these families when the inflation kicks in but wages don't rise???? I dunno, this is just me thinking out lout and putting some thoughts i have down in writing. Its may not be as bad as i feel it is, but i love all tech python, Raspberry pi, Arduino etc, building drones etc. So doing something positive with farming and tech will be a nice endeavour i hope! Even better if i can help just 1 person have better hope for the future.