Need basic help with my Claas Quadrant 1200 baler

[farmf]

I need help with my Claas Quadrant 1200 baler. I'm a complete beginner, and have trouble understanding the manual, so wondering if anyone with experience could help me.

These are the symptoms:
The bale has reached its full length.
The needles are stuck in the upper part of their move.
The shear bolt for knotter drive is broken.
The flywheel shear bolt breaks if I try to run the baler.

If I understand the manual correctly, I should turn the knotter drive manually with a pipe or similar and then replace the shear bolt for the knotter drive. Will this fix the issue?

I don't understand why the shear bolt for knotters broke in the first place? What can be the reason for this really? Is the bale too tight? Is it the needles that are not able to move their full length?

And why does flywheel shear bolt break? Is this because the needles are in the up position?

What drives the needles? Is it the same drive as the knotters? I.e. they are not moving because shear bolt is broken.

I would assume that needles are stuck because knotter drive shear bolt is broken, and flywheel shear bolt breaks because needles are stuck? I thus need to find the reason why shear bolt of knotter drive broke. Any ideas?

Thanks alot for helping a beginner.

 

[8100]

Put all the shear bolts in place and wind it over by hand only you will need a helper to do this so you can check the timing is ok and nothing is interfering with each other.Do you know the history of the baler? I would be a bit warry of lobbing some HP up the pto just yet.

 

[farmf]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try putting the shear bolts and wind it by hand.

I don't know anything about the history of it. I have only used it for one bale, then the needles got stuck and that is what I am trying to solve now.

Any ideas from your experience what could be the issue causing this?

 

[Selectamatic]

I know nothing of Class Quadrant Balers.

However, if it was a small, conventional baler, the flywheel bolt breaks when the needles are up as a stopper, known as a ram stop, enters the chamber at the same time as the needles, preventing the ram coming to contact with the needles, thus protecting the needles.

Have a look inside, is there a physical stop for the ram?

 

[farmf]

OK - I think that clarifies why the flywheel bolt breaks - the needles are up and are protected by the stopper. It makes perfect sense.

So plan is to put shear bolts back for flywheel and knotter and turn it by hand. I will try to look inside and check if there is something there or something strange with the timing. I should probably pull out the bale to get a clear view inside. But would be better to keep it there if the issue is simply solved by turning it manually with shear bolts in place.

 

[jthomsonagri]

You will need to get yourself a long piece of bar and on the end of the knotter shaft is a cam with two lobes sticking out. Put the bar over the shaft and under one of the lobes and manually finish the tying cycle. You can then put all the shearbolts back in and hopefully all will be well. You have done well so far not to bale the needles up!

 

[doogie7530]

Check needles not damaged then wind needles back with long bar if I remember right you have to find out if they are on there way out or on there way in then wind them back out if they have not tied knot. Replace shear pins and hopefully should be ok. Needles can be staightened we remove good one to copy shape.

 

[doogie7530]

Dog stop on claas usually stops you from baling needles.

 

[Lofty]

Sounds to be as though the timing isn't right.
Your going to have to get to terms with the timing as described in the manual.
Familiarise yourself with where all the timing marks are and check they all line up.

 

[farmf]

thank you all, I appreciate all the help

 

[farmf]

I remember one thing now that could be the reason for these issues.

The very first knot I kind of forced, by manually pushing the arm that is pushed mechanically when the bale has reached its full length. The baler was running when I did this. In hindsight this was probably a big mistake, and maybe caused issue with timing, as the knot was forced at a time in the cycle when it shouldn't have been knotted.

So maybe the second knot was then started at a time when it shouldn't have been. Too late or too soon...

What do you think?

 

[Grassman]

I remember one thing now that could be the reason for these issues.

The very first knot I kind of forced, by manually pushing the arm that is pushed mechanically when the bale has reached its full length. The baler was running when I did this. In hindsight this was probably a big mistake, and maybe caused issue with timing, as the knot was forced at a time in the cycle when it shouldn't have been knotted.

So maybe the second knot was then started at a time when it shouldn't have been. Too late or too soon...

What do you think?

You really need someone with experience to look at it. One false move can cost you thousands!

 

[Lofty]

I remember one thing now that could be the reason for these issues.

The very first knot I kind of forced, by manually pushing the arm that is pushed mechanically when the bale has reached its full length. The baler was running when I did this. In hindsight this was probably a big mistake, and maybe caused issue with timing, as the knot was forced at a time in the cycle when it shouldn't have been knotted.

So maybe the second knot was then started at a time when it shouldn't have been. Too late or too soon...

What do you think?

I don't think thats go anything to do with it as long as there wasn't a knot still on the bill hooks.

Get the bale out, take the string out of the retainers, unthread the needles and turn it over by hand when the tying mechanism is tripped. You will the be able to follow the cycle and learn how it works and you won't break anything if it gets tight.

I occasionally have sheared both the knotter and flywheel shearbolts in the field if the packer shearbolt breakes while on the tying cycle.

 

[bovrill]

Not on a Claas, but I had the needles jam in between the floor hay dogs in a Hesston once (the tooth shaped plates bolted in the bottom of the bale chamber, which allow crop to pass backwards out of the chamber, but stop it springing forwards when the plunger comes forward for the next stroke.)
It had been working on stony ground, and had picked something up which bent the teeth, allowing the needles to push through and up to the knotters, but trapped them when they tried to come back down.
The whole chamber had to be emptied to see what was going on.

 

[farmf]

Probably best to get the bale out empty the chamber and do everything from the beginning.

http://imgur.com/wzhxq8R

Could you please clarify points 2, 4, 5 for me in this picture of the instructions.
This is something I don't fully understand, and did not follow to the mark when I started. (Again something that maybe causing the issue?)

In point 2 - how do I "trip a tying cycle"? Maybe it is because English is not
my first language (or because I'm stupid..) but I don't understand how to perform this.

In point 4. "the retainer plate" - is that the part of the knotter that holds the twine and keeps it there after each tying cycle?

In point 5. I suppose I should remove every piece of twine I see in the knotter, other than the twine that is in "the retainer plate" from point 4. Am I right?

Anything else to keep in mind?

 

[Lofty]

Did you get my PDF manual about timing above?

 

[farmf]

Did you get my PDF manual about timing above?

Yes, thank you. I will most definitely check this on the baler once I get back to the farm.

 

[bobk]

Sounds like the needles are entering too early , therefore jamming in the knotters whilst the cam hasn't finished it's cycle .
There's a measurement of how much needle should protude outside the knotters.

 

[Lofty]

Probably best to get the bale out empty the chamber and do everything from the beginning.

http://imgur.com/wzhxq8R

Could you please clarify points 2, 4, 5 for me in this picture of the instructions.
This is something I don't fully understand, and did not follow to the mark when I started. (Again something that maybe causing the issue?)

In point 2 - how do I "trip a tying cycle"? Maybe it is because English is not
my first language (or because I'm stupid..) but I don't understand how to perform this.

In point 4. "the retainer plate" - is that the part of the knotter that holds the twine and keeps it there after each tying cycle?

In point 5. I suppose I should remove every piece of twine I see in the knotter, other than the twine that is in "the retainer plate" from point 4. Am I right?

Anything else to keep in mind?

2. You will notice as the spiked wheel on top of the bale chamber turns, it turns a rack and pinion. When the rack gets to the end of its travel, it drop the trip arm and it starts the tying cycle. You can manually trip the cycle by lifting the rack out the pinion and moving it forward so the trip arm drops.

4. Yes. The twine is threaded through the needles and up into the retainer.

5. Yes. The twine will remain around the bill hook until the bale grows in length and pulls the twine off. If you trip the tying cycle with a knot still on the bill hook, it will get in a mess.

The points you need to keep in mind is that if the needles aren't timed correctly you WILL do damage to the machine. Your picture above describes getting the twine threaded and into the retainers, this is nothing to do with timing and breaking shear bolts.

 

[czechmate]

It's a 1200 baler. I must use 100 shear bolts per year