Network rail access

[james-stephens2014]

I have ongoing disputes with NWR over their fencing (we have had to double fence it in a lot of places) and bluntly refuse all access requests. They will threaten stuff but just ignore it all... When I do have to allow access for infrastructure type jobs there is a always an agreement and a large sum of money involved.

 

[teslacoils]

Most of the time it's a struggle to get them out to do anything, so why not welcome them and add a few "while you're here" jobs?

 

[hoff135]

Have found network rail quite high handed with access over the years. Turning up to fence without organising the job with us before hand. One time a contractor was re sleepering and the threw the screws and a number of sleepers over the fence into out field. They had to come back and gather them all.

Once upon a time they went on to dads ground with a 360 to put gabion baskets beside a bridge. No permission asked.

Father spotted them from the road and stopped and went on to the line and stood looking at them. Engineer got excited and came over telling him to get off it. Dad turned round and said I will when you get out of my field changed his tune then

 

[HatsOff]

Important thing is never to walk away from the negotiation or point blank refuse access. If you do that then a court can grant access.

But it's not unreasonable for them to require access from time to time, but it's equally not unreasonable to get adequate compensation including your time managing them. But getting help from a land agent is the most straightforward way to handle them.

 

[Bobthebuilder]

recently they've been doing a job up here involving replacing a couple of culverts under the line, the amount of new materials that was left when finished ran into 10s of thousands, the project manager should be sacked for waste like that, twin wall piping, timber, dumpy bags of sand and 100s of tons of sub base, even a couple of new ladders that they were using to climb up the bank, but i know the person who ended up getting it all as would of cost more to take it away

 

[james-stephens2014]

I find that land agents over complicate things and I get on far better dealing direct. I was once offered £500 for 16 weeks occupation of a area the size of a penalty box in a arable field next to railway, I said do the fencing and you can, they said they couldn't do the fencing not their department, so I said £50,000, they said they would get court access and I said good luck, then they said £10,000 and I said ok.... The days of yes you can come through with a digger if you would just do this/that as you pass are long gone, stopped by h&s etc.

NWR have caused me SO many problems, rabbit damage, stock fencing, level crossing issues, changing weight ratings on bridges..... F*ck them.

 

[kiwi pom]

Way out! You could try a fee based on a percentage of the value of the contract. E.g. Job priced at £20k. 2% = £400 total fee.
Agent is acting for the client so no conflict of interest.

Really, so for the OP with all the fecking about with an agent, having all kinds of rules and requirements drawn up he might get a few hundred quid?

How much will the agent make out of this deal?

If they have no right to be there, the OP might as well tell them to jog on.
I'll stick with my original offer of 500 quid a day or nothing, it might encourage them to hurry up.

 

[snarling bee]

IME no utility co or the railways/roads have any respect for any private property. As above I would negotiate a fee that covers all the hassle and plenty more. What you see as a good fee is small change to the contractors doing the job.

I am a keyholder on a site and have ended up charging £300 deposit for a key. Guess what - I still have the £300, and the £100 and the £50 before that. Wish I had charged more. They are all useless t@@ssers.

 

[Adam@Rumen]

Not seen or heard anything from them since. Will provide an update as and when.

We don't really need any other work doing anywhere near there for them to do us a favour back.

 

[Adam@Rumen]

He's just called asking how much I'd want... told him my land agent aka @kiwi pom suggested £500/day access.

He's gone to ask the powers that be...

 

[kiwi pom]

He's just called asking how much I'd want... told him my land agent aka @kiwi pom suggested £500/day access.

He's gone to ask the powers that be...

LOL, might as well, you asked for thoughts and no one else seems keen on a number despite seeming to understand the process.

My guess is land agents always know roughly how much the different companies will pay in total, as they deal with them every day, then they just have to decide how much will be yours and how much they keep as their fees.
Just someone else making money off the back of farmers but they get god like status on here for some reason.
I wonder how many read TFF but don't comment?

 

[Doing it for the kids]

LOL, might as well, you asked for thoughts and no one else seems keen on a number despite seeming to understand the process.

My guess is land agents always know roughly how much the different companies will pay in total, as they deal with them every day, then they just have to decide how much will be yours and how much they keep as their fees.
Just someone else making money off the back of farmers but they get god like status on here for some reason.
I wonder how many read TFF but don't comment?

most of us are busy doing our day job.

the agents fees are covered and they take away the hassle.

it all depends what you do with your time each day and your skill set

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

So all you 'get an agent' guys sound familiar with the process, so out of interest, how far off am I with 500 quid a day?
Also an agent will work with network rail all the time but may only work for you once a year, where do you think their loyalties lie?

I once tried to get their agreement to using their access road along the side of an old railway viaduct to get to a big fallen tree in the River Mimram to remove it (I was working for the Environment Agency at the time arranging such works). Despite the access track being at the foot of a 120 foot high viaduct they insisted we would be "trackside" if we used their access and wanted £3500 to check and approve my risk assessment and method statement then £1000 per day for their man to accompany us.

We found another way in.

This was over 10 years ago.

I think £500 sounds way too cheap!

 

[kiwi pom]

I once tried to get their agreement to using their access road along the side of an old railway viaduct to get to a big fallen tree in the River Mimram to remove it (I was working for the Environment Agency at the time arranging such works). Despite the access track being at the foot of a 120 foot high viaduct they insisted we would be "trackside" if we used their access and wanted £3500 to check and approve my risk assessment and method statement then £1000 per day for their man to accompany us.

View attachment 976871

We found another way in.

This was over 10 years ago.

I think £500 sounds way too cheap!

You're probably right, 500 per day was just plucked out of thin air. Nobody seems to be letting on what their agent got them for similar work though.

 

[Simon Chiles]

You're probably right, 500 per day was just plucked out of thin air. Nobody seems to be letting on what their agent got them for similar work though.

Technically I’m not allowed to disclose how much I received, however I will say that I got a little over what you are suggesting as a day rate for a week. What was intended to be a few weeks work actually ended up being the best part of a year. I also got my farmyard area increased dramatically and the access improved, the yard entrance concreted, 24 hour a day security in the yard whilst they were there, endless supplies of tea and coffee for ourselves and all my delivery drivers/grain lorries ( it was the only bit they were really good at ) with shower and toilet facilities for the drivers if they needed it. I also got the entire length of my field/ their track rabbit fenced, I had a big rabbit problem and used to loose a lot of crop which has now ended. I got left 100’s of tonnes of type 1 limestone chippings and track ballast ( enough to enlarge my other yard ) and various other bits and pieces like led flood lights, fencing panels, paints, electrical cable and water pipe that was otherwise going to landfill and enough fire wood to heat my house for three years. During the period they had accepted all responsibility for the health and safety and liability for the site whilst they were there. I didn’t use an agent.

 

[kiwi pom]

Technically I’m not allowed to disclose how much I received, however I will say that I got a little over what you are suggesting as a day rate for a week. What was intended to be a few weeks work actually ended up being the best part of a year. I also got my farmyard area increased dramatically and the access improved, the yard entrance concreted, 24 hour a day security in the yard whilst they were there, endless supplies of tea and coffee for ourselves and all my delivery drivers/grain lorries ( it was the only bit they were really good at ) with shower and toilet facilities for the drivers if they needed it. I also got the entire length of my field/ their track rabbit fenced, I had a big rabbit problem and used to loose a lot of crop which has now ended. I got left 100’s of tonnes of type 1 limestone chippings and track ballast ( enough to enlarge my other yard ) and various other bits and pieces like led flood lights, fencing panels, paints, electrical cable and water pipe that was otherwise going to landfill and enough fire wood to heat my house for three years. During the period they had accepted all responsibility for the health and safety and liability for the site whilst they were there. I didn’t use an agent.

Do you think you would have got all that if you had used an agent?

Good job by the way

 

[Simon Chiles]

Do you think you would have got all that if you had used an agent?

Good job by the way

I don’t know. There’s a certain amount off knowing about the practicalities of the situation that I’m not convinced most agents would fully grasp. For example they were intending to rent aluminium tracking for where the yard has been increased. As I know that it was cheaper over the intended time period to lay the limestone/track ballast I pointed out that they could save money especially as I was happy for them to leave it there afterwards. It’s amazing how much clout they have with local planning authorities, I’ve known them send off details of what they wanted to do and had decisions back in hours. For you and I that sort of thing would take months and cost. I also reckon they have certain budgets and would be fairly convinced that things like the rabbit netting can be included if they’re not paying agents fees. I let them write the contracts, I read it very carefully, get them to take out stuff they try to slip in and put back bits they agreed verbally that get omitted. One of the main advantages to them is I’d wager I sort things out way faster than an agent. I like to think we both benefit from our working relationship and being reasonable on both sides gets results.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I don’t know. There’s a certain amount off knowing about the practicalities of the situation that I’m not convinced most agents would fully grasp. For example they were intending to rent aluminium tracking for where the yard has been increased. As I know that it was cheaper over the intended time period to lay the limestone/track ballast I pointed out that they could save money especially as I was happy for them to leave it there afterwards. It’s amazing how much clout they have with local planning authorities, I’ve known them send off details of what they wanted to do and had decisions back in hours. For you and I that sort of thing would take months and cost. I also reckon they have certain budgets and would be fairly convinced that things like the rabbit netting can be included if they’re not paying agents fees. I let them write the contracts, I read it very carefully, get them to take out stuff they try to slip in and put back bits they agreed verbally that get omitted. One of the main advantages to them is I’d wager I sort things out way faster than an agent. I like to think we both benefit from our working relationship and being reasonable on both sides gets results.

When our phone mast was erected (2002) I tried hard to get Orange to put a permanent hardcore access track in. They absolutely refused and used Eve Trackway instead, 600m of it hired for 6 weeks because Christmas got in the way. A permanent track would have been much cheaper and meant they could still get to it in wet weather.

 

[Forkdriver]

I once tried to get their agreement to using their access road along the side of an old railway viaduct to get to a big fallen tree in the River Mimram to remove it (I was working for the Environment Agency at the time arranging such works). Despite the access track being at the foot of a 120 foot high viaduct they insisted we would be "trackside" if we used their access and wanted £3500 to check and approve my risk assessment and method statement then £1000 per day for their man to accompany us.

View attachment 976871

We found another way in.

This was over 10 years ago.

I think £500 sounds way too cheap!

I too worked for the EA, and can fully corroborate that story. They are almost impossible to deal with rationally when you want something from them, and will walk all over you if they want something. Although I was a land agent I never owned any calf scour yellow coloured cords

 

[PostHarvest]

In a recent TV programme, a construction company wanted to access their site over a railway line using a private gated level crossing. After a long period of negotiation, the fee t

I think £500 sounds way too cheap!

On a recent TV programme, a construction company wanted to use a private level crossing to access a site on the other side of a railway line. They commented that the price that they had to pay to cross the minor rural line was around the same as if they had used helicopters to lift their gear over the line.