New basic Tractor choices?

[Cowabunga]

Historically, MF was Perkins’ biggest customer and owner. It is regrettable that it had to be sold off at the time but inevitable in the circumstances. However to compound that loss, they have also lost almost all the volume handler market, rather than gained customers. Argo/landing/McCormick used to be almost exclusively Perkins at one time, yet FPT now supply at least as many units to them. Deutz, FPT and Kubota seem to have been far more successful at gaining and retaining customers, often at the expense of Perkins.
Hopefully Caterpillar and gen-sets have taken up the slack. I’m only looking at installations from an agricultural perspective, which obviously is only a proportion of the bigger off-road and truck picture.

 

[rtc]

Yes, the ag sector by profits and sales doesn’t make up that much of the worldwide engine market. It’s about focusing on the markets you feel you can make the most from. One look at Cat shares at the moment should suggest that, for now, we’re doing okay.
I’m a farmers son so also take it personally our (possibly perceived) lack of presence in the ag sector but I’ve been here 10yrs now so understand the whys and wherefores and some of the tough choices we’ve had to make along the way.
I’d just finish by saying the sales relationship works both ways. The best engine won’t be the cheapest and sometimes one or both parties realise they’re not going to get the price they want. I’m really proud of the company I work for and the quality of the product we produce, so to assume we’re not in ag because we’re not good enough these days would, in my opinion be wide of the mark.

 

[Cowabunga]

I certainly agree that Perkins have excellent engines and I lament their retreat from the agricultural market where they were once top dogs. It is very much in the national interest that they go from strength to strength.

 

[pgk]

Love our Perkins powered loadall and landini vision, mind you also like our Leyland powered Marshall!

 

[Timbo]

I certainly agree that Perkins have excellent engines and I lament their retreat from the agricultural market where they were once top dogs. It is very much in the national interest that they go from strength to strength.

Who is fitting Perkins motors now? I cant think of any where once nearly every loader had one...

 

[Mursal]

JCB ?

 

[Timbo]

JCB ?

Jcb's own 444.

 

[dowcow]

From what I've read, the 3.4l FPT engines are as much Perkins as FPT. They might be badged in CNH machines as FPT, and in other machines as Perkins, but were developed in collaboration. I don't know whether this applies to larger 4cylinder or even 6 cylinder too, anyone?

 

[dowcow]

How much of any engine is down to one manufacturer these days anyway? Probably Bosch injectors driven by Lucas electronics and boosted with a Garett turbo charger, maybe with valve springs from USA, an oil pump from Germany and a water pump from Japan.

 

[Cowabunga]

Who is fitting Perkins motors now? I cant think of any where once nearly every loader had one...

Caterpillar. Lots in generator and pumping sets.

Yes the 3.4 litre is license built from Fiat Power Systems and the little three and four cylinder ones used by JCB in their mini-diggers is license built from ISM of Japan [Ishikawajima] and also used in some New Holland skid-steers but probably original ISM sourced in that case..

 

[Cowabunga]

How much of any engine is down to one manufacturer these days anyway? Probably Bosch injectors driven by Lucas electronics and boosted with a Garett turbo charger, maybe with valve springs from USA, an oil pump from Germany and a water pump from Japan.

Was it ever the case. It certainly was in 1979 when my MF590 had engine castings and manifolds made by IMT. Lots of parts for later ones, including the auto hitch for 690 came from Ursus as I suspect did the hydraulic linkage parts.
Ford closed their cast Iron forge many many decades ago and bought blocks, cranks and major castings from all over the world, including Spain, Mexico and India for assembly into Basildon tractors. The machining was done in-house mostly though. Today all NH major components are imported, mainly from Italy and Belgium, ready machined and subassembled. MF buy in castings from lord knows where, but front axles are mostly pre-assembled from Italy and CVT transaxles from Germany. Engines from Finland. Transmissions though are designed and machined almost, but not quite in-house, because there is a lane between the assembly plant and the transmission factory which are separate businesses. The transmission factory takes metal blanks and castings and hardens and precision machines and assembles and tests them all as sub assemblies, then sends them about 20metres across the gap to be bolted into the tractor chassis.

Its all fascinating stuff. It is not something new and it has been going on for probably as long as blacksmiths turned into multi-factory machinery manufacturers.

A current example in cars is the ZF 9 speed automatic transmission which is built in two US factories, neither of which is a ZF factory, and fitted to Jeep, Chrysler, Honda, Land Rover and Range Rover, Jaguar and Mini vehicles and probably a few more. Obviously the JLR and Mini vehicles are assembled here in the UK [or were in the case of Honda].
Ford and GM have just launched 10 speed automatic transmissions, jointly developed, a version of which will be fitted to the 2020 Ranger pickup. Both Ford and GM already install it in their US built trucks and making a million or more units a year makes significant cost savings and justifies massive R&D expenditure compares to making a few tens of thousands of transmissions [or less] for many vehicle models.

It does not mean that all these components are identical though. There may be minor or even major differences, such as different gearing, seals or wiring or ECU's and firmware tuning features that alter the driving characteristics between installations, but the economy of scale and the greater part of R&D is shared between the total volume of the family that is produced.

 

[seedman stains]

Just to come back on track has anyone had a go of the mccormick X6.35/45/55 range with the deutz 3.6l motor, seems to be a handy size for a loader

 

[steveR]

Just to come back on track has anyone had a go of the mccormick X6.35/45/55 range with the deutz 3.6l motor, seems to be a handy size for a loader

Sadly,I have had 2 unpleasant experiences with McCormick tractors, such that I will not touch another one. My neighbour would probably say the same, there seemto be a few Friday afternoon specials about! ,I have no doubt that there are good and bad ones,in the same way as there are good and bad dealers....

 

[steveR]

To go back to my original post at the start of the year... I have held off any major spending on anything until we see what the Brexitbollox will bring.

I was minded to go Korean again in the end, based on a high level of satisfaction with my Kioti over 5 years. I looked at an NX6010 as a direct replacement for my EX50, but decided more weight was needed for a GFW tractor.

A dealer and saleman I believe in, put me onto the Branson tractors who have a neat little 75hp 4wd tractor that would fill the bill at a modest new purchase price. Low on the bells and whistles, but decent build I thought. Cummins engine. Biggest problem is not many larger machines being sold into the UK, but common in Germany and US, as well as the far East. Partsmainly held in Yurrup,but this is very common these day for a lot of machinery. What will happen come March, who knows??

 

[Cheesehead]

Does anyone know what the PTO horsepower ison the Kubota M5091 and M5111 as I can't seem to find it anywhere?

 

[celtis man]

To go back to my original post at the start of the year... I have held off any major spending on anything until we see what the Brexitbollox will bring.

I was minded to go Korean again in the end, based on a high level of satisfaction with my Kioti over 5 years. I looked at an NX6010 as a direct replacement for my EX50, but decided more weight was needed for a GFW tractor.

A dealer and saleman I believe in, put me onto the Branson tractors who have a neat little 75hp 4wd tractor that would fill the bill at a modest new purchase price. Low on the bells and whistles, but decent build I thought. Cummins engine. Biggest problem is not many larger machines being sold into the UK, but common in Germany and US, as well as the far East. Partsmainly held in Yurrup,but this is very common these day for a lot of machinery. What will happen come March, who knows??

I think in the future more of us stock farmers will be looking at these far eastern makes as the main stream brands are too expensive for the job .

 

[le bon paysan]

Does anyone know what the PTO horsepower ison the Kubota M5091 and M5111 as I can't seem to find it anywhere?

76hp and 89hp

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

76hp and 89hp

Is that brochure power or dyno power?

 

[le bon paysan]

On my tablet I don't know how to link, but I looked on tractor data.

 

[Cheesehead]

76hp and 89hp

Thank you