New Defender - Land rover micro site

[Johnnyboxer]

It is a portable shower by any other name.

So you can have a shower, after shearing or dosing sheep/cattle????????????????

 

[Cowabunga]

So you can have a shower, after shearing or dosing sheep/cattle????????????????

I don't know. Can you?

[there must be a hidden trick to that question?]

 

[pgk]

Is Project Grenadier any more advanced than a design exercise yet? For all the talk, I don't think so. They are certainly actively designing a vehicle, using a Mercedes subsidiary company for that, and there is talk of utilising the skill of ex-Ford employees in the Bridgend area for assembly in that region. Nothing certain though.

They have signed an agreement to use BMW powerplants.

 

[Cowabunga]

They have signed an agreement to use BMW powerplants.

While I heard it was their preferred power plant, I've not read of any actual agreements as yet. Such an agreement would confirm the imminent manufacture of the vehicle, but I think that may well be quite a few years away yet. It might not even happen.

There was a PR campaign back in March this year that was [obviously] very upbeat about the design and prospects for the vehicle and vaguely for the timetable as well. However, it ain't over until the fat lady sings.

Even for Land Rover, she has only started singing yet and the vehicle will not be in the dealers here in any numbers until well into the second quarter of 2020. So the timescale for Grenadier, for which they have not even got a build location yet, must be longer than they would like us to think.

 

[pgk]

While I heard it was their preferred power plant, I've not read of any actual agreements as yet. Such an agreement would confirm the imminent manufacture of the vehicle, but I think that may well be quite a few years away yet. It might not even happen.

Ineos chap seems very determined with aim of building 25,000 a year on chassis like old defender. If Welsh government give him factory in bridgend assembly will be there, he has other offers elsewhere in Europe and will no doubt go for whoever gives him the best deal. Suggestion is not looking at ev option initially as focus will be on commercial diesels for worldwide sale. BMW powerplants offers good backup world wide and well proven technology.

 

[Paddington]

It is a portable shower by any other name.

My D2 has that option, the sunroof leaks, so nothing new there.

 

[Cowabunga]

Ineos chap seems very determined with aim of building 25,000 a year on chassis like old defender. If Welsh government give him factory in bridgend assembly will be there, he has other offers elsewhere in Europe and will no doubt go for whoever gives him the best deal. Suggestion is not looking at ev option initially as focus will be on commercial diesels for worldwide sale. BMW powerplants offers good backup world wide and well proven technology.

Rather odd that a Mercedes subsidiary is designing the thing but that they choose BMW engines with, presumably, matching ZF transmissions, when Mercedes manufacture quality powertrains of their own.

I wonder whether they will bother offering manual transmissions. These are dying out quite rapidly now, because automatics have improved so considerably and are rated for more torque in a more compact packages. With the advent of electric vehicles, manual transmissions are likely to become niche products.

Full time 4wd is a must for the Grenadier and I hope they realise this.

 

[pgk]

I think a lot of Mercedes transmissions are built with zf. Presumably BMW engines were better price and as BMW would not see grenadier as a competitor they will be keen to leverage as many sales of their diesels as possible while they can. Also suggestion of BMW petrols being offered. A lot of mercs. Diesel technology is not their own, Renault/Nissan, logically grenadier will be looking to offer a 2 litre 4 cylinder diesel as main offering and not a 6 cylinder. BMW 4's would therefore have been better option.

 

[Cowabunga]

I think a lot of Mercedes transmissions are built with zf. Presumably BMW engines were better price and as BMW would not see grenadier as a competitor they will be keen to leverage as many sales of their diesels as possible while they can. Also suggestion of BMW petrols being offered. A lot of mercs. Diesel technology is not their own, Renault/Nissan, logically grenadier will be looking to offer a 2 litre 4 cylinder diesel as main offering and not a 6 cylinder. BMW 4's would therefore have been better option.

Mercedes transmissions are overwhelmingly their own 7 and 9G-Tronic. Yes, many sub-2litre drivetrains are Renault made, mainly consisting of the 1.5 diesels.
Mercedes make their own four cylinder 2 litre diesel, the OM654, which is a direct rival to BMW. Not sure why you seem to imply that they don't. Maybe Mercedes don't want a rival to their X-Class

The OM 608 is the Renault K9K in disguise. I know this because I own one of the approximately 13million K9K engines that have been built so far, fitted to my Qashqai. Also had one in a Juke before this one.

 

[Rowland]

That's because many wanted it to be affordable to them. Its easy not to like something you can;t afford to drive on a daily basis on farm. That is the shame of it.

I have no doubt it will be good, but for that money it should be and will need to be. Assuming depreciation follows the same as Range Rover, these will be very affordable in 3 years time.

I don’t criticise things I’d like but can’t afford !

 

[pgk]

Mercedes transmissions are overwhelmingly their own 7 and 9G-Tronic. Yes, many sub-2litre drivetrains are Renault made, mainly consisting of the 1.5 diesels.
Mercedes make their own four cylinder 2 litre diesel, the OM654, which is a direct rival to BMW. Not sure why you seem to imply that they don't. Maybe Mercedes don't want a rival to their X-Class

The OM 608 is the Renault K9K in disguise. I know this because I own one of the approximately 13million K9K engines that have been built so far, fitted to my Qashqai. Also had one in a Juke before this one.

Interesting that x class sales have been so poor, possibly because of lack of 4 cylinder?
As I understand it most of the 4 cylinders are now using jointly developed technology. 1.5 diesel is as you say the well regarded Renault 1.5. We have juke and family members quashkais all with 1.5 Renault diesel.
Bils Mercedes auto of a few years ago was a zf, maybe price is the issue as Mercedes have a division to sell on their technology to third parties.
See ineos say theirs will be aluminium panels and permanent 4wd. Will this be the real new defender, about £50m in and no tooling or factory yet!

 

[Cowabunga]

Interesting that x class sales have been so poor, possibly because of lack of 4 cylinder?
As I understand it most of the 4 cylinders are now using jointly developed technology. 1.5 diesel is as you say the well regarded Renault 1.5. We have juke and family members quashkais all with 1.5 Renault diesel.
Bils Mercedes auto of a few years ago was a zf, maybe price is the issue as Mercedes have a division to sell on their technology to third parties.
See ineos say theirs will be aluminium panels and permanent 4wd. Will this be the real new defender, about £50m in and no tooling or factory yet!

Most of the Mercedes car diesels bigger than 1.6 are their own. I doubt very much if Mercedes used ZF auto transmissions in any vehicle over 2 litres as they have been building their own since almost the dawn of time.
X-Class lacking four cylinder engines you say? These are the exception where Mercedes use big four cylinder Renault diesels. Most of their sales are four cylinder, which are basically pure Nissan Navara in drag, including Jatco transmissions. The reason they don't sell is that the Navara sells for about 10k cheaper with better spec and warranty. They do now offer X-Class with V6 diesel Mercedes engine and 7 G-Tronic transmission, including full time 4wd, for about £40k+VAT, or nearly twice the price of a Navara Techna with the more powerful of the four cylinder engines.


The new Defender is all alloy and full-time 4wd

 

[Tim G]

Found one a bit more affordable....... https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/land-rover-defender-42110?CMP=SOC-LandRoverDefenderReveal

 

[Paddington]

£40K for base model in the US apparently, owing to competition ?

 

[Cowabunga]

£40K for base model in the US apparently, owing to competition ?

Remember that prices are usually quoted without sales tax in the USA. Deduct the VAT plus the pretty massive first registration tax for UK price equivalence. At least that's how I think it works over there.

My experience up until the recentish fall in the value of the Pound is that consumer goods imported into the USA are pretty much the same as in the UK even considering the VAT we pay here, which adds 20% to the price.
For Chinese made goods, it wouldn't surprise me if we were now or soon to be considerably cheaper than in the USA, due to Trumpies tariffs of course.

 

[pgk]

That'll teach me to fact check what I was told by salesman and bil.
Bil now says his best auto was zf in 5 series, problem one was e class of merc. Manufacture.
Salesman told me all 3 and 4 cylinder mercs were joint with Renault but I see that new CEO says the joint ventures will run their course and not be renewed and only 1.33 petrol 1.5 and 1.6 diesels were from renault to date.
Point I was making about project grenadier being new "real" defender is that it is on ladder chassis unlike land rovers new defender.

 

[milkloss]

I guess all the ex D4 buyers will jump at this new Defender. Similar price, spec and status?

 

[Chris F]

I don’t criticise things I’d like but can’t afford !

Yes, but we could all afford to drive defenders before as farmers. Now we can't. A vehicle we all felt to be part of our heritage. One that was on the majority of farms in the UK. We now don't have that vehicle going forward.

That gives people plenty of right to be critical that JLR has not delivered the Defender that we want.

 

[pgk]

Yes, but we could all afford to drive defenders before as farmers. Now we can't. A vehicle we all felt to be part of our heritage. One that was on the majority of farms in the UK. We now don't have that vehicle going forward.

That gives people plenty of right to be critical that JLR has not delivered the Defender that we want.

But realities of real world is they cant afford to produce what we want at a price we can afford to pay hence why farmers are moving on to pick ups with shorter life expectancy but at a price we can stomach. I shall just keep waxoyling the 110.

 

[Chris F]

But realities of real world is they cant afford to produce what we want at a price we can afford to pay hence why farmers are moving on to pick ups with shorter life expectancy but at a price we can stomach. I shall just keep waxoyling the 110.

Of course they can. JLR just don't want to as it's not the best way to maximise profits for the company. That is quite understandable as a strategy to produce premium products. This single community is a small niche and then they would have to compete with all the pickups. So best leave that ni8che to the pickups and maintain the residuals on the old defenders, which will last for many years to come.