New Defender

Nithsdale Farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
For what it's worth :bag: I actually like the new Defender - from most angles. The rear end is hideous. There's a blue I've seen photis of them in which I think looks very good. That pale green is a bad colour IMO.

The entry level 90s, spec'd with 18" steels, off road tyres and with basic coil springs can be had for £40k on LR website.
I'm interested to see how basic the commercial is (the more gadgets they get rid of the more interested I am)... give it 5 years, let the new car gremlins be ironed out, see what depreciation is like and I could well be interested in one.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
It's crazy the mk 1 and 2 Discovery was just a Defender with a different body bolted on... yet they are worth nothing now. So many will have been scrapped when crossmembers needed replaced because even with a whole new chassis those Disco would only be worth £3k at best. Yet the Defender was commanding anything upto £9k for a 200 or 300tdi with new chassis (not sure if prices are still so high, that was when we sold our 90, 3 years ago)

As you say, they're disappearing. I don't know where all these old Defenders are that are supposedly still on the road

Actually it was a Classic Range Rover with exactly the same chassis and body undergarments. Same wheelbase and same axles, at least to start with when both were in production side by side, from 1990 to 1996 or so. Yes, the original Disco only had three doors but it soon adopted the same door architecture exactly as the Range Rover's.

Those old 'imaginary friend' Defenders will have been scrapped. Simple as that.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
its VERY ugly and too expensive for what it is
Apart from the back end it's no uglier than any current Range Rover model. The back end can be improved by an aftermarket filler panel, which seems to be quite a popular mod [no wonder!], but why LR persist with the unbalanced design despite almost nobody liking it is beyond me. Unless it is pure arrogance on the part of the designer, Gerry McGovern, which wouldn't surprise me at all. Company management at JLR always have been arrogant tossers who never listen to constructive criticism even when it comes to improving build quality and reliability. I remember being on a local off-road demo back near the launch of the 110, must have been 1983, when one of their demonstrators, subsequently promoted to a top management position and probably recently retired, just would not even consider the fact that their new 2.5 Diesel engine was still drastically underpowered at 67hp and that Daihatsu in particular had far better performing reliable engines. The subject of turbocharging came up and he swore that LR would never ever consider it because they needed to be repaired [presumably] using a rock, a stick and possibly some string in the depths of a jungle or isolation of the desert. Which was, even then, a complete load of balls, as anyone who ever ran one can testify. I don't recall the three third gear synchros or the new crank that my first 110 needed in two years from new being repaired so easily.
 

Clive

Staff Member
NFFN Member
Location
Lichfield
For what it's worth :bag: I actually like the new Defender - from most angles. The rear end is hideous. There's a blue I've seen photis of them in which I think looks very good. That pale green is a bad colour IMO.

The entry level 90s, spec'd with 18" steels, off road tyres and with basic coil springs can be had for £40k on LR website.
I'm interested to see how basic the commercial is (the more gadgets they get rid of the more interested I am)... give it 5 years, let the new car gremlins be ironed out, see what depreciation is like and I could well be interested in one.

I like it and price wose I think the commercial will be in line : competitive vs the hogher end double cabs like Amrok etc

hope they build a full EV version as that would be ideal as a commercial
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
I like it and price wose I think the commercial will be in line : competitive vs the hogher end double cabs like Amrok etc

hope they build a full EV version as that would be ideal as a commercial
I dont like it. If you were buying for heavy commercial use you would need to be mad to buy a commercial defender over a amarok, commercial landcruiser (3-4k less than an amarok for a lwb) or the 2.8 hilux when it comes out next year.

These are all proven ladder chassis vehicles, with proven engines, suspension and running gear. Toyota pattern parts will be much cheaper and more readily available than those for the new defender as they sell roughly 1 million 4x4s per year.

If it isnt for work then its just personal preference the same as anything else, but id much rather spend 50k on a 2015 v8 landcruiser, which will still outlast and outwork any brand new JLR vehicle. There is a reason that a used range rover/discovery is so much cheaper than a similar landcruiser, and the new defender will likely be the same.
 

Nithsdale Farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
I dont like it. If you were buying for heavy commercial use you would need to be mad to buy a commercial defender over a amarok, commercial landcruiser (3-4k less than an amarok for a lwb) or the 2.8 hilux when it comes out next year.

These are all proven ladder chassis vehicles, with proven engines, suspension and running gear. Toyota pattern parts will be much cheaper and more readily available than those for the new defender as they sell roughly 1 million 4x4s per year.

If it isnt for work then its just personal preference the same as anything else, but id much rather spend 50k on a 2015 v8 landcruiser, which will still outlast and outwork any brand new JLR vehicle. There is a reason that a used range rover/discovery is so much cheaper than a similar landcruiser, and the new defender will likely be the same.

Not everyone wants/needs a pickup...

UK Land Cruiser commercial can't tow 3.5t makes it a pointless vehicle. They don't even come with a spare wheel 🤦‍♂️
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
Not everyone wants/needs a pickup...

UK Land Cruiser commercial can't tow 3.5t makes it a pointless vehicle. They don't even come with a spare wheel 🤦‍♂️
Yeah fair point, so the options are:

New landcruiser commercial: 3t towing, ladder chassis, strong residuals, reliable, approx £25k

New hilux: 3.5t towing, ladder chassis, strong residuals, reliable, can add canopy if desired, approx £25k

Used 4.2 landcruiser: 3.5t towing, ladder chassis, zero depreciation, more reliable than a new JLR vehicle, approx £20k

Used 4.5 v8 landcuiser: 3.5t towing, ladder chassis, strong residuals, more reliable than new JLR vehicle, approx £40k

But no, ignoring shoguns, touaregs and all the other options, what i want is:

New defender: 3.5t towing, no ladder chassis, residuals unlikely to be strong, unlikely to be reliable, parts likely to be expensive, £40k

Sounds perfect.
 

David1985

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Dorset
Test drive new one today and it’s lush, agree with Clive it’s not a defender though. Be better if it had a new name, bit like when ford went from escort to focus it they had called it an escort still it wouldn’t work. Will have to wait a few years for it to be in my price league though. 300tdi will have to chug on a bit longer!

Rep in Yeovil Land Rover said they have sold a lot more than they had expected to though. 59k for a defender they had in the show room sounds a lot till your see the Range Rover next to it was 118k.

Still made a nice change for a Sunday morning.
 

David1985

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Dorset
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Tubbylew

Member
Location
Herefordshire
It's crazy the mk 1 and 2 Discovery was just a Defender with a different body bolted on... yet they are worth nothing now. So many will have been scrapped when crossmembers needed replaced because even with a whole new chassis those Disco would only be worth £3k at best. Yet the Defender was commanding anything upto £9k for a 200 or 300tdi with new chassis (not sure if prices are still so high, that was when we sold our 90, 3 years ago)

As you say, they're disappearing. I don't know where all these old Defenders are that are supposedly still on the road
One here, 22 year old 90 300tdi new galvanised chassis 2 years ago, only really because I can't see a suitable vehicle to replace it with for the money it cost to rebuild, sure it's not perfect (I should have bought a 110) and the doors will need work in the next few years but I can't see an alternative atm. Wifey has a 17 year old hilux which will need replacing with something, only due to rust, if I could put a galvanised chassis on that then I would. Still only tows 2.7 ton though
 

Nithsdale Farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
But no, ignoring shoguns, touaregs and all the other options, what i want is:

New defender: 3.5t towing, no ladder chassis, residuals unlikely to be strong, unlikely to be reliable, parts likely to be expensive, £40k

Who has said that?

This is a thread discussing the new Defender... so it's only right we are talking about it 🤷‍♂️


But can you explain why we aren't all running about in Toyotas already if they're as good as you make out? You'd think they'd have the job sewen up
 

Nithsdale Farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
One here, 22 year old 90 300tdi new galvanised chassis 2 years ago, only really because I can't see a suitable vehicle to replace it with for the money it cost to rebuild, sure it's not perfect (I should have bought a 110) and the doors will need work in the next few years but I can't see an alternative atm. Wifey has a 17 year old hilux which will need replacing with something, only due to rust, if I could put a galvanised chassis on that then I would. Still only tows 2.7 ton though

We chopped in a 300tdi 90 hard top 3 1/2 years ago - doors were gone, bulkhead was starting to go. Chassis was buggered... we didn't want to let it go, but it was at the 'peak' of Defender demand. We got what we paid for her 14 years previous, so absolutely zero depreciation. We were told what it would be worth with a full rework, galv chassis and it was adding less to the Defenders value than the work would have cost. So we let her go.

Bought a 59 Puma 110 single cab pickup. Yep, it won't last as long as the 300tdi did. Yep, it's the least desirable body variant with the least desirable engine... but she does everything we need and is light years ahead of the old 300tdi in terms of comfort, noise, pulling/towing, stability (being lwb) - and much more versatile being the pickup (y)
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
Who has said that?

This is a thread discussing the new Defender... so it's only right we are talking about it 🤷‍♂️


But can you explain why we aren't all running about in Toyotas already if they're as good as you make out? You'd think they'd have the job sewen up
They do have the job sewn up globally, hence around 1 million 4x4 sales per year, just not in the uk where more people buy on personal preference than actual quality/reliability/longevity.

Having said that there are lots of other decent options like amarok, isuzu etc.

I could be wrong on the residuals, but as it is essentially a new JLR vehicle, probably closest to the discovery, and has no connection to the old defender, i dont see why the new defender will have any better residuals than the new discovery, range rover etc, which are not particularly strong, especially when you consider that they are a much more expensive vehicle to buy in the first place.

Same goes for reliability and parts prices. Old defender parts prices were broadly similar to equivalent toyota parts, however that is not true of discoveries/range rovers (far more expensive) and so why would it be true for the new defender?

Hope that answers your question
 

Nithsdale Farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
They do have the job sewn up globally, hence around 1 million 4x4 sales per year, just not in the uk where more people buy on personal preference than actual quality/reliability/longevity.

Having said that there are lots of other decent options like amarok, isuzu etc.

I could be wrong on the residuals, but as it is essentially a new JLR vehicle, probably closest to the discovery, and has no connection to the old defender, i dont see why the new defender will have any better residuals than the new discovery, range rover etc, which are not particularly strong, especially when you consider that they are a much more expensive vehicle to buy in the first place.

Same goes for reliability and parts prices. Old defender parts prices were broadly similar to equivalent toyota parts, however that is not true of discoveries/range rovers (far more expensive) and so why would it be true for the new defender?

Hope that answers your question

No, it doesn't... Ford has probably made the biggest gain in this sector in the UK. Although there are more Hiluxs getting about now

Toyota have never pushed their vehicles. I honestly don't know the last time I saw a Land Cruiser, of any type
 

Tubbylew

Member
Location
Herefordshire
I
We chopped in a 300tdi 90 hard top 3 1/2 years ago - doors were gone, bulkhead was starting to go. Chassis was buggered... we didn't want to let it go, but it was at the 'peak' of Defender demand. We got what we paid for her 14 years previous, so absolutely zero depreciation. We were told what it would be worth with a full rework, galv chassis and it was adding less to the Defenders value than the work would have cost. So we let her go.

Bought a 59 Puma 110 single cab pickup. Yep, it won't last as long as the 300tdi did. Yep, it's the least desirable body variant with the least desirable engine... but she does everything we need and is light years ahead of the old 300tdi in terms of comfort, noise, pulling/towing, stability (being lwb) - and much more versatile being the pickup (y)
I've been considering changing the hilux for a 110 utility, as I can keep it the road indefinately, but they're just too much money now, nearly bought one last year for 17.5k, but now your looking at 27k way outa my league now☹
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
No, it doesn't... Ford has probably made the biggest gain in this sector in the UK. Although there are more Hiluxs getting about now

Toyota have never pushed their vehicles. I honestly don't know the last time I saw a Land Cruiser, of any type
You are correct about the ranger, also a good vehicle.

Toyota do have the job sewn up globally, and are the worlds biggest 4x4 producer. Toyota arent pushing their vehicles here because it is such a small market for them and they already have strong global demand for their vehicles, whats the point in selling more vehicles than you can produce? This is the same reason why we didnt get the 2.8 engine in the hilux in 2015 like the rest of the world did, the uk is a small market and it wasnt worth the R&D cost of getting it through our emissions legislation at that time.

Hopefully thats explained it a bit better?
 

forblue

Member
It amazes me every time someone brings out a new or updated model it's wider, longer, heaver and faster but our roads are the same this is just another tank, even if it was a brick sh--house someone will buy it.............
 

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HSENI names new farm safety champions

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

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The Health and Safety Executive for Northern Ireland (HSENI) alongside the Farm Safety Partnership (FSP), has named new farm safety champions and commended the outstanding work on farm safety that has been carried out in the farming community in the last 20 years.

Two of these champions are Malcom Downey, retired principal inspector for the Agri/Food team in HSENI and Harry Sinclair, current chair of the Farm Safety Partnership and former president of the Ulster Farmers’ Union (UFU).

Improving farm safety is the key aim of HSENI’s and the FSP’s work and...
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