New defender

[Lakesdigger]

They either want and need a pickup or they don’t. It’s that simple. Plenty of vans and two wheel drive pickups such as that lovely Fiat 1 ton available. Vans available in 4wd if required and I was following a pimped-up VW the other day. Two unrelated friends, one a builder and the other a farrier, also have 4wd VW vans. There’s a lot to be said for large side doors and a low load deck for those that don’t need a pickup.

You still miss the point. A hill farmer fed up with the oncost that was a defender 90 or the price they were getting to be or the fact you can no longer get one or even that he had family to take with him places and had moved on to a pickup which only just fit down the narrow lanes and through gateways with trailer on is now getting to have no option. Vans don't tow enough and do not have gearboxs suitable for manoeuvring trailers 4wd or not. New defender us far too dear and pickups are getting too big.

 

[Bob lincs]

I was surprised when we got our Defender 110 home and parked it next to my Disco 4 , it is huge when they are parked side by side but feels no bigger to drive also the boot space looks tiny compared to the Disco .

 

[Cowabunga]

i know. i have 2 80s and had a 60, 100 and 120. as well as some hiluxs and a defender. the defender was nowhere near as good for towing as the 60 or 120 (let alone the 80s or 100) despite the much higher tow rating. hence my point about Toyota being very unambitious with the ratings

that was an 08 defender so your old 110 would be significantly worse still.

that a 67hp 110 is rated to 3.5t and the landcruiser (prado) is only 3t is ridiculous. there is not a single part of a 110 that would be better for towing than any landcruiser since 1980

My 1984 110 was perfectly good with 3.5 tons although it was grossly underpowered. It did not tow as well [in driving behaviour/handling terms] as my 1988 Range Rover diesel but that was down to me fitting front springs off a petrol Range Rover to the back to stiffen it up and raise it slightly. My 110 also had heavy duty spring but also the optional self-levelling Boge unit fitted to the rear A frame and top to the differential which actually degraded the laden handling.
I never rated the Land Cruiser 100 as being the best of towing vehicles and its payload is pathetic. With a load of cattle in the IW trailer the suspension of the 100 defaulted to its low height setting more often than not because the hydraulics were overloaded.

The power of the engine never has figured in the ability to be licensed legal to tow 3.5 tons.

 

[Cowabunga]

You still miss the point. A hill farmer fed up with the oncost that was a defender 90 or the price they were getting to be or the fact you can no longer get one or even that he had family to take with him places and had moved on to a pickup which only just fit down the narrow lanes and through gateways with trailer on is now getting to have no option. Vans don't tow enough and do not have gearboxs suitable for manoeuvring trailers 4wd or not. New defender us far too dear and pickups are getting too big.

Make your gateways wider. Otherwise give up. They are not about to change for a tiny minority of people. If small pickups were in demand they or someone would still be making them. That you [or I] cannot afford the latest singing and dancing vehicle after paying nearly £20k for each truckload of fertiliser is only indirectly the manufacturer’s problem and that only if demand fell.

 

[dave mountain]

My 1984 110 was perfectly good with 3.5 tons although it was grossly underpowered. It did not tow as well [in driving behaviour/handling terms] as my 1988 Range Rover diesel but that was down to me fitting front springs off a petrol Range Rover to the back to stiffen it up and raise it slightly. My 110 also had heavy duty spring but also the optional self-levelling Boge unit fitted to the rear A frame and top to the differential which actually degraded the laden handling.
I never rated the Land Cruiser 100 as being the best of towing vehicles and its payload is pathetic. With a load of cattle in the IW trailer the suspension of the 100 defaulted to its low height setting more often than not because the hydraulics were overloaded.

The power of the engine never has figured in the ability to be licensed legal to tow 3.5 tons.

in the same post you say a 1984 110 is perfectly good with 3.5t, and that a 100 series isn't a particularly good tow vehicle.... madness

or, as i call it, green oval disease...

 

[Cowabunga]

I am not 'jealous' of the vehicle: I don't know how you came to that conclusion and if you care to look back I think you will find comments about the reliability of LR products are not that rare on this forum.

No, I do not need a snorkel or a winch on any LR product nor any other vehicle. Thank you for alerting me to the possibility of having one though. I am near certain such things could be installed on competitor vehicles.

I presume you did not notice other, earlier comments about this car and how buyers were being told that many options were totally unavailable and LR dealers would not take orders of them?

Snorkel and winch can be fitted to the rival. Try some of the other features I listed. The only things that are currently in short supply are things that require electronic chips/processors. As you may have read, these are in short supply for all vehicles with many production lines being stopped periodically and some models not being built at all at the moment as a result. I’m amazed that there isn’t a camera shortage considering that most reasonably specified vehicles have have about six of them or more these days. There’s even one available on your favoured 150 series Land Cruiser, a model which if not for the chip shortage would be replaced with a far more modern and competitive model this year.
Toyota have lost their mojo in recent years and even though the 300 series Land Cruiser has been recently launched in some select areas, principally Australia and the Middle East, they have planned for and will only produce limited numbers annually for some reason. As a result there is a ridiculous four to five year waiting list for a factory order currently. Not because of massive demand but due to scaling production down to tiny numbers relatively speaking.

 

[Hilly]

You still miss the point. A hill farmer fed up with the oncost that was a defender 90 or the price they were getting to be or the fact you can no longer get one or even that he had family to take with him places and had moved on to a pickup which only just fit down the narrow lanes and through gateways with trailer on is now getting to have no option. Vans don't tow enough and do not have gearboxs suitable for manoeuvring trailers 4wd or not. New defender us far too dear and pickups are getting too big.

Refurb your old defender ?

 

[Cowabunga]

in the same post you say a 1984 110 is perfectly good with 3.5t, and that a 100 series isn't a particularly good tow vehicle.... madness

You obviously have little practical experience even with your claimed portfolio. The 110 was underpowered but towed 3.5 tons within its limits [67hp] perfectly well. Power was not an issue with the Cruiser, although considering it has 200hp and 400Nm torque it is no ball of fire. Here the ‘Skyhook’ active suspension is the limiting factor not power. As I said, the payload of the 100 series is tiny and with seven people on board it is very very near its limit without luggage or equipment. With the towball load of the IW trailer, which was no issue with the 110 or indeed the Isuzu Trooper 3.1, the LC suspension would collapse to its lower setting and stay down on its bump stops. As a result its handling was not good either. With a more moderate load it was great, but we are talking about 3.5 ton loads here on farms that tend to have livestock trailers like mine i.e. Ifor Williams 14ft by 6ft with or without decks [without in my case].

 

[dave mountain]

You obviously have little practical experience even with your claimed portfolio. The 110 was underpowered but towed 3.5 tons within its limits [67hp] perfectly well. Power was not an issue with the Cruiser, although considering it has 200hp and 400Nm torque it is no ball of fire. Here the ‘Skyhook’ active suspension is the limiting factor not power. As I said, the payload of the 100 series is tiny and with seven people on board it is very very near its limit without luggage or equipment. With the towball load of the IW trailer, which was no issue with the 110 or indeed the Isuzu Trooper 3.1, the LC suspension would collapse to its lower setting and stay down on its bump stops. As a result its handling was not good either. With a more moderate load it was great, but we are talking about 3.5 ton loads here on farms that tend to have livestock trailers like mine i.e. Ifor Williams 14ft by 6ft with or without decks [without in my case].

so you are actually trying to suggest a 1984 110 is a better tow vehicle than a 100? just because you bought the wrong model so had AHC instead of coils like mine... even with AHC they are leagues better than any 110 for towing. coils were only available on low spec versions with manual gearbox (which unfortunately also had derated engine vs the auto) but are a cheap and easy conversion on any 100 series (cheaper than a handbrake on a d3)

 

[Skintagain]

To be fair making them all very powerful has made it more dangerous. Old defenders couldn’t get much over 45mph fully laden much safer than 60mph . These 200hp pickups are lethal.

green oval disease everyone has their preference.

 

[Hilly]

To be fair making them all very powerful has made it more dangerous. Old defenders couldn’t get much over 45mph fully laden much safer than 60mph . These 200hp pickups are lethal.

green oval disease everyone has their preference.

I like my old defenders but everything else they make is over priced and over rated imo , their track record for reliability is shocking, if it ain’t a defender workhorse it has to be Japanese

 

[Skintagain]

I like my old defenders but everything else they make is over priced and over rated imo , their track record for reliability is shocking, if it ain’t a defender workhorse it has to be Japanese

I like the new defenders but they will likely be heaps of shite. The days of anything modern doing 200k plus are long gone imo. New engines are been strangled.

 

[Cowabunga]

so you are actually trying to suggest a 1984 110 is a better tow vehicle than a 100? just because you bought the wrong model so had AHC instead of coils like mine... even with AHC they are leagues better than any 110 for towing. coils were only available on low spec versions with manual gearbox (which unfortunately also had derated engine vs the auto) but are a cheap and easy conversion on any 100 series (cheaper than a handbrake on a d3)

Coil springs only was not an option when I bought mine, although I do have such springs in stock for when the hydraulics failed. It was due to be converted when the brake failed.
Having the 110 for 22 years and the Cruiser for 20 years, both towing extensively although mainly locally apart from a seasonal weekly mart run lightly laden with calves, I do know precisely what I’m talking about. Lightly laden the Cruiser was fine, although nothing like as settled as the Isuzu Trooper, which we also ran from 1993 until it was scrapped around 2010.
From 1998 to 2006 [when the 110 engine blew] we had a Trooper, Land Cruiser and the 110 working.

 

[mf7480]

To be fair making them all very powerful has made it more dangerous. Old defenders couldn’t get much over 45mph fully laden much safer than 60mph . These 200hp pickups are lethal.

green oval disease everyone has their preference.

You probably make a good point there. The D300 absolutely surges off the line if you get heavy with the accelerator and honestly doesn’t stop pulling even well, well over the speed limit. In normal driving it’s incredibly relaxed, never much revving above 2000 rpm even with a heavy trailer behind.

However, in all situations it’s fairly terrible on fuel!

 

[dave mountain]

To be fair making them all very powerful has made it more dangerous. Old defenders couldn’t get much over 45mph fully laden much safer than 60mph . These 200hp pickups are lethal.

green oval disease everyone has their preference.

most lethal pickup out there is a remapped mk6 hilux 3.0
no traction control, weight under 2t, 240hp and 550Nm on a basic stage 1 map, some pushing 300hp+ with minor mods

the newer ones are quick yes but bigger, heavier, and with traction control etc

I like the new defenders but they will likely be heaps of shite. The days of anything modern doing 200k plus are long gone imo. New engines are been strangled.

i agree about the new defenders, but there are still some options that will do 200k+ easily...
over 215000 miles in 5 years is some serious driving

 

[Cowabunga]

I like the new defenders but they will likely be heaps of shite. The days of anything modern doing 200k plus are long gone imo. New engines are been strangled.

There are more cars exceeding 200,000 miles today than ever before. I’m old enough to remember it being a miracle if a car or Land Rover reached 70,000 miles without at least one major strip-down overhaul of both engine and gearbox plus a whole lot of welding and replacement parts needed [like an annual new exhaust and battery]. 'Heaps of shite’ were the old Series Land Rovers by any relative standard so unless you get a Friday afternoon built new Defender, I sincerely doubt whether it could sink to anywhere near that level of shittiness.

 

[Skintagain]

There are more cars exceeding 200,000 miles today than ever before. I’m old enough to remember it being a miracle if a car or Land Rover reached 70,000 miles without at least one major strip-down overhaul of both engine and gearbox plus a whole lot of welding and replacement parts needed [like an annual new exhaust and battery]. 'Heaps of shite’ were the old Series Land Rovers by any relative standard so unless you get a Friday afternoon built new Defender, I sincerely doubt whether it could sink to anywhere near that level of shittiness.

I'm talking about what's coming out now not what is just clocking 200k. I have a td5 on 220odd but the 2.2's I see advertised or the disco 4's have often had new engines at relatively low miles. Early 2000-2010 motors were very good hilux, defender, landcruisers etc. This very late stuff is plagued with junk. Toyota are king for the miles. They are exceptional vehicles but as I said before they bore the bones off me. My heart wants defender my head wants Toyota

 

[Lakesdigger]

Refurb your old defender ?

It's not an issue for me (although I'm doing up 2010 hilux as imho there's no advantage to a newer one for my needs especially at the cost to change). The simple fact is every vehicle in the road is getting bigger and the roads aren't, but it's ok as the new highway code is out to fix this. And I'm not disillusioned that a manufacturer is bothered about this as they will build what 90% of buyers want not what a small few require.

 

[dave mountain]

There are more cars exceeding 200,000 miles today than ever before. I’m old enough to remember it being a miracle if a car or Land Rover reached 70,000 miles without at least one major strip-down overhaul of both engine and gearbox plus a whole lot of welding and replacement parts needed [like an annual new exhaust and battery]. 'Heaps of shite’ were the old Series Land Rovers by any relative standard so unless you get a Friday afternoon built new Defender, I sincerely doubt whether it could sink to anywhere near that level of shittiness.

1980s landrovers can rarely do much more than 100k without major work, and the newer one often dont manage much more. 1980s 60 series landcruisers regularly do over 1 million miles without work to engine or gearbox. it wasnt that all cars were bad in the 80s its just that landrovers are bad. so, not sure why there is such confidence in the new defender, especially given how complicated and inherently expensive to repair it is. green oval disease...

 

[Lakesdigger]

most lethal pickup out there is a remapped mk6 hilux 3.0
no traction control, weight under 2t, 240hp and 550Nm on a basic stage 1 map, some pushing 300hp+ with minor mods

the newer ones are quick yes but bigger, heavier, and with traction control etc

i agree about the new defenders, but there are still some options that will do 200k+ easily...
over 215000 miles in 5 years is some serious driving
View attachment 1015521View attachment 1015526View attachment 1015528

I'm a little dubious as to figures on remapped 3.0 hiluxs and certainly at those figures they must be like riding round with a hand grenade and the pin out under the bonnet. Mine is mapped and nowhere near this figures (and by a very good and well respected mapper on a rolling road).