New Dwelling

[corinnewintrip31015]

Has anyone had success in building a new dwelling on the farm? We currently both work full time away from the farm and have 37 acres of farmland and we run a flock of 180 ewes, with other animals too. We have been told the farmhouse we rent at the moment is going to be sold which will make us homeless. Has anyone had success in planning permission for a new Dwelling? We would love a house but open to bungalow, log cabin etc.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

You have to be able to demonstrate a necessity for on site living.

Speak to a local planning consultant and get their view, you will probably get a temporary mobile home style but push for something permanent

 

[ffukedfarmer]

Each local authority seem to have different criteria. Around here if you can demonstrate that your farming business can generate enough profit to support a full time worker plus the rough annual cost of repaying a loan to build a dwelling. In real terms at least £20,000.
You also must have a need to live on site, which your sheep numbers should near enough meet.

In my experience the bungalow vs house argument is more to do with each individual site and the impact the new dwelling will have on the location. A farm workers dwelling is meant to be modest so grand designs type plans will likely be rejected. A house is actually much cheaper to build than a bungalow and it is worth arguing that fact.

Google PPS7 Annexe A as this is what most authorities still refer to despite it being superceded by the National Planning Policy Framework.

@GeorgieB82 is the man you need to talk to on here.

 

[del_boy]

We've just built a new house on the farm and the post above is stop on.
You have to demonstrate a need for a 2nd dwelling and it wont be easy on your numbers. It was a bit of a battle which we eventually won on the condition we had a tie put on it.
We had a stone barn we wanted to convert at the time but was refused that for "full time residential use" but we got planning for a 4 bed house right next to it!! Councils and there decisions have no logic at all! Best of luck

 

[bovrill]

Alternatively, if you have buildings, existing water and power, and neighbours who aren't too nosey, stick a mobile home on there.
If you can stick it out a few years, volunteer to pay council tax on it, (councils love being given money with no fuss).
Once you're at that point you're on your way. Either upgrade to a nice log cabin that falls under the same rules, or gradually apply to change the mobile to a built dwelling.

It's not everyone's cup of tea, living in a mobile home, but if the farm is the priority rather than comfort, it's a way forward!

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Each local authority seem to have different criteria. Around here if you can demonstrate that your farming business can generate enough profit to support a full time worker plus the rough annual cost of repaying a loan to build a dwelling. In real terms at least £20,000.
You also must have a need to live on site, which your sheep numbers should near enough meet.

In my experience the bungalow vs house argument is more to do with each individual site and the impact the new dwelling will have on the location. A farm workers dwelling is meant to be modest so grand designs type plans will likely be rejected. A house is actually much cheaper to build than a bungalow and it is worth arguing that fact.

Google PPS7 Annexe A as this is what most authorities still refer to despite it being superceded by the National Planning Policy Framework.

@GeorgieB82 is the man you need to talk to on here.

Cheers @ffukedfarmer, you are pretty spot on with your observations especially the fact that each LPA views key workers differently.
If the OP wants some advice specific to their situation please feel free to PM me

 

[Kidds]

There have been a lot of posts on here saying there is no financial viability requirement any more for new ag dwellings.
Of course that doesn't mean the LPA are going to take any notice of it but if you can fight them by quoting the laws/rules you stand a better chance.

Either way, getting planning seems to take 10 years on average around here. A mobile home in the meantime if you are lucky.

 

[Greenbeast]

Yeah it's tricky, the nppf has done away with the financial viability aspect i think.
We're on temporary right now, will be going for permanent in 2018

 

[Moorlands]

Acorus rural property services
They are planning specialists they got me planning for mine after local agents attempt had fallen flat and they where advising us to alter structure of our business and then apply for a caravan for a start and we where putting wheels in motion to do this when I saw a advert for acorus called them and they told me over phone they thought I had a good case so I set them on they did a extremely in depth and comprehensive appraisal with everything covered and planning went straight through!

 

[S J H]

Yeah it's tricky, the nppf has done away with the financial viability aspect i think.
We're on temporary right now, will be going for permanent in 2018

Sorry @Greenbeast keep meaning to pm you,

We got ours without financial evidence, because I've been trading for over 10 years but under the family farm.

It was a lot of work which in the end I mainly did myself, spent a lot with an agent, which I still think I had to do to have the letterhead.

 

[ffukedfarmer]

Sorry @Greenbeast keep meaning to pm you,

We got ours without financial evidence, because I've been trading for over 10 years but under the family farm.

It was a lot of work which in the end I mainly did myself, spent a lot with an agent, which I still think I had to do to have the letterhead.

The financial aspect was key to our application and a further years accounts showing increase growth allowed us a bigger floor area.

Like I said each authority has very different criteria.

 

[corinnewintrip31015]

Thank you everyone.

 

[Grassman]

There is someone near us built a farm building in a greenfield site. Got some rare breed pigs and a few sheep. Horses etc. Put a mobile home type thing in claiming he needed to live on site. Now he has got permission for a nice big natural stone house. Not a farmer but he obviously knew how to pass the tests with the local authority.
Total fraudulent job but he's got away with it.

 

[S J H]

There is someone near us built a farm building in a greenfield site. Got some rare breed pigs and a few sheep. Horses etc. Put a mobile home type thing in claiming he needed to live on site. Now he has got permission for a nice big natural stone house. Not a farmer but he obviously knew how to pass the tests with the local authority.
Total fraudulent job but he's got away with it.

That's what wound me up so much when we were going through it for ours. Someone said to me when we got it, that it's good that it was passed, now we can sell the cows!

Someone near here got one through, it was too big a house imo and too far away from the buildings. I don't think he's farming anymore.

 

[Greenbeast]

makes it harder for the few of us that are genuine

 

[corinnewintrip31015]

It drives me mad people like that because that's what will probably stop us getting planning. Does anyone think it would help our case if we put an agri ti on the property?

 

[Greenbeast]

It drives me mad people like that because that's what will probably stop us getting planning. Does anyone think it would help our case if we put an agri ti on the property?

I assumed that was a given!?

 

[corinnewintrip31015]

No some people we know don't have an agri ti. But they have been there years so guessing rules have probably changed a lot

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I can't see a LPA allowing a new dwelling on a greenfield site without it being for a key worker and having a tie to that workers occupation.

 

[TheTallGuy]

I can't see a LPA allowing a new dwelling on a greenfield site without it being for a key worker and having a tie to that workers occupation.

Sadly, round here you are more likely to get a house on a sub 1 acre plot with no reason for a dwelling than if you own a farm and have a need for it.