New Holland Adblue Faults

ct773

New Member
Wondering if there are any friendly CNH mechanics out there who might be able to help me out....

Family have a New Holland T7.210 which has done 8000hrs. It started flagging Adblue fault codes, with local dealer quoting thousands for parts. I told brothers to get adblue mapped out so they sent ECU off for this, got it returned but tractor still flagging faults. Not convinced at all on what mappers done, the guy is being helpful but it's been difficult to work remotely or over the phone. Also sounds like he just buys software off some other developer. Local dealer isnt too interested now in sorting out someone else's mess which I can sort of understand.

I got involved this morning as I have a fair bit of knowledge on adblue systems but not on CNH kit. Please can a kind and generous individual send me fault descriptions and any other service manual information on the following codes to help me in this rather messy situation please?

3618
3537
3541
3555

Please PM me if easier....

Might be a bit of a warning to anyone else thinking of going down this route. Not as simple as it first seems!
 

Mr. Sam

Member
Wondering if there are any friendly CNH mechanics out there who might be able to help me out....

Family have a New Holland T7.210 which has done 8000hrs. It started flagging Adblue fault codes, with local dealer quoting thousands for parts. I told brothers to get adblue mapped out so they sent ECU off for this, got it returned but tractor still flagging faults. Not convinced at all on what mappers done, the guy is being helpful but it's been difficult to work remotely or over the phone. Also sounds like he just buys software off some other developer. Local dealer isnt too interested now in sorting out someone else's mess which I can sort of understand.

I got involved this morning as I have a fair bit of knowledge on adblue systems but not on CNH kit. Please can a kind and generous individual send me fault descriptions and any other service manual information on the following codes to help me in this rather messy situation please?

3618
3537
3541
3555

Please PM me if easier....

Might be a bit of a warning to anyone else thinking of going down this route. Not as simple as it first seems!
Engine: 3537
CAN Message timeout DM1DCU (from DCU) -CAN timeout
Engine: 3541
CAN Message timeout SCR1 (from DCU) -CAN timeout
Engine: 3541
CAN Message timeout SCR1 (from DCU) -CAN timeout
Engine: 3555
CAN Message timeout SCR2 (from DCU)-CAN timeout
 

GreaseMonkey

Member
Location
Norfolk
Sounds to me like these codes are flagging up because the tractor itself is configured with SCR system, but your engine controller has had it 'removed' so that's why a message timeout is occurring. It's a communication error.
 

Mr. Sam

Member
Sounds to me like these codes are flagging up because the tractor itself is configured with SCR system, but your engine controller has had it 'removed' so that's why a message timeout is occurring. It's a communication error.
Engine: 3618
CAN Expired durihg emerhency start, stop and started
 
Presumably for a proper "AdBlue Off" remap they leave any supplementary ECUs in place, like the Dosing Control Unit, and instruct it to not inject/run the DeNox cycle - or do they remove completely (disconnect it from the CAN etc)? There's a fair amount of plumbing involved otherwise with coolant pipes etc.

The former would be easier and tidier, as it's just software commands and could potentially resurrect the system into operation in the future.

Dare say this will be increasingly common going forward as these become uneconomic to repair.
 

Timbo

Member
Location
Gods County
Suspect your dosing control module is dead or lacking power / earth and the engine ECU is failing to hear back from it. The ad-blue-off flash may well be fine, but the controllers must still be capable of communicating.

The can network itself is fine since all the other controllers are communicating (you mention no other fault codes)
 
Suspect your dosing control module is dead or lacking power / earth and the engine ECU is failing to hear back from it. The ad-blue-off flash may well be fine, but the controllers must still be capable of communicating.

The can network itself is fine since all the other controllers are communicating (you mention no other fault codes)
Quite possibly what was buggered originally if the dealer was "quoting thousands for parts".

Do you happen to know if CNH run Bosch Denoxtronic as part of their AdBlue system like AGCO use? Fairly common in the truck world - perhaps a cheaper source of parts?
 

ct773

New Member
Thanks for all the replies so far. Sorry it's taken a while to get back on this.

First a bit more detail. With the Adblue system is all still connected up the two codes are 3618 and 3537. The mapper had asked for the Adblue system to be disconnected which was when all codes listed above became active. I disconnected the multi pin connector on the doser control unit for this test. I don't think it's a power or earth issue at doser. Sorry for any confusion on this.

Thanks for the suggestion grease monkey. I just want to make sure I understand this right. My interpretation is that these faults are coming from and being stored in the engine ECU as opposed to any other module. The reason being that all faults beginning with 3 are engine ECU faults. Have I understood this right, as it's what the owners manual suggests? Which suggests that the engine ECU is still wanting to communicate with the the DCU.

My expectation on Adblue removal was that the software in the engine ECU would mask all issues with the Adblue system preventing it from going into limp home mode. Seems like when connected up the dosing system is still active to some degree as you can still hear it purging after engine shutdown for example.

Appreciate any other suggestions anyone has...
 
To delete adblue you must first have it reset and in theory working by a dealers computer then have it mapped out immediately. iI dont understand why you had to send brain off. Any decent mapper with a computer should be able to do it
 

Half Pipe

Member
Quite possibly what was buggered originally if the dealer was "quoting thousands for parts".

Do you happen to know if CNH run Bosch Denoxtronic as part of their AdBlue system like AGCO use? Fairly common in the truck world - perhaps a cheaper source of parts?
they use truck adblue systems as it has an 12v to 24v inverter
 
they use truck adblue systems as it has an 12v to 24v inverter
Tractors here running a Bosch Denoxtronic-II setup which is found as you say on road (trucks) as well as off-road (agri and construction). Lots of engine manufacturers appear to fit the same basic setup (as they do with engine ECUs, which are predominately Bosch EDC16 or 17 family or Phoenix L14 for JD)

I've had no issues (touch wood), but good to understand all the alternatives and sources of alternatives parts etc should issues develop down the track.

Found buying Bosch AB filters for the tank/dosing module was 1/3 to 1/2 the price than buying the same part through main dealers (just in a different box)...would other far more expensive OEM AdBlue components be similar in price variation though, if sourced from truck spares rather than agri spares, given they are basically the same?
 

Mr. Sam

Member
[QUOTE =“雉雞驚喜,帖子:3720536,會員:1103”]這裡的拖拉機運行了一個博世的Denoxtronic-II設置,這是您在道路上(卡車)和越野(農業和建築)上發現的。許多發動機製造商似乎符合相同的基本設置(與主要用於博世EDC16或17系列或JD的Phoenix L14的發動機ECU相同)

我沒有任何問題(觸摸木材),但很好地了解所有備選方案和替代零件的來源等,應該在軌道上發展。

發現購買用於罐/配料模塊的Bosch AB過濾器的價格比通過主要經銷商(僅在不同的箱子)中購買相同零件的1/3至1/2 ... ...其他更昂貴的OEM AdBlue組件在價格變動雖然來自卡車備件,而不是農業備件,因為它們基本相同?[/ QUOTE]
It seems to be this part Bosch dosing module
 

Attachments

  • bo.jpg
    bo.jpg
    36.8 KB · Views: 95

ct773

New Member
To delete adblue you must first have it reset and in theory working by a dealers computer then have it mapped out immediately. iI dont understand why you had to send brain off. Any decent mapper with a computer should be able to do it

Couldn't find any local companies to do the mapping, and ones further away weren't willing to travel. Found a company who were willing to do this remotely and sent them the ECU to calibrate. Probably not the best decision with hindsight.

Not sure how you would get a faulty system working prior to remapping without fixing the initial problem, which kind of defeats the point of removing the adblue system in the first place. From what i have seen the faults are inactive at every key on event, then become active when the tractor is started. In my experience with other on highway engines recalibrating an ECU will typically clear all fault anyway except any legislated obd ones, which i dont think exist in the off highway world...

Hope to speak to dealer this morning to find out more on their diagnosis of the original issue. Might try looking elsewhere for parts. I assume that the doser control unit is installed with application specific software - so if i get a unit off a truck etc it would need to be recalibrated? Can NH dealers do this or do they buy in units with the right software already installed?
 
Couldn't find any local companies to do the mapping, and ones further away weren't willing to travel. Found a company who were willing to do this remotely and sent them the ECU to calibrate. Probably not the best decision with hindsight.

Not sure how you would get a faulty system working prior to remapping without fixing the initial problem, which kind of defeats the point of removing the adblue system in the first place. From what i have seen the faults are inactive at every key on event, then become active when the tractor is started. In my experience with other on highway engines recalibrating an ECU will typically clear all fault anyway except any legislated obd ones, which i dont think exist in the off highway world...

Hope to speak to dealer this morning to find out more on their diagnosis of the original issue. Might try looking elsewhere for parts. I assume that the doser control unit is installed with application specific software - so if i get a unit off a truck etc it would need to be recalibrated? Can NH dealers do this or do they buy in units with the right software already installed?

I have had loads of adblues removed due to faults and it must be reset first to clear the errors with a laptop then remapped out immediately. You shouldn't hear the adblue working anymore at after shutdown etc and no need to remove anything cables etc. Its very simple. I think either u haven't had it reset or your remapper hasnt done a good job which is very possible too.
 

njneer

Member
Preparing for the backlash on his but this sounds like the biggest case of false economy I have heard for a long while.
Main dealers are main dealer for a reason they spend thousands every year in diagnostic equipment and training of the personal to use it .
Yes there is a high labour cost but as this case clearly shows you get what you pay for.
I have dealt with some of these company's before and all promise " don't worry we keep the original file so we can put it back to standard if need be " been there !! sounds great until you ask them to come back and reinstate it to original then the excuses start oh we lost it or oh we have changed laptop long and short of it they either cannot or will not be back any where near it.
Is there a cost to fixing these systems ? yes of course can it be expensive yes of course .
At the end of the day the systems are a Legal requirement in this country like it or not.
Adblue is an added cost ,granted ,but is it that much really in the grand scheme of things.
Always hear people on hear slagging off main dealers who are " ripping everyone off" at the end of the day they have invested in their business to provide expert services for us which meet the required standards and legislation.
Imagine the outrage if supermarkets started circumventing the system and importing cheap beef from abroad that did not meet any legal requirements or standards but it was deemed to be a better bet because it was a fraction of buying it from professional experienced , registered and accredited producers because " UK farmers are just ripping everyone off" .

My advise , and only my opinion, it is your money at the end of the day .

Get it fixed "professionally" by a professional dealer who know what they are doing and will warrant their work properly.
Start counting up your own time you have spent on this already at £30 an hour plus the cost of the ahem "map" which has clearly only created more Problems than it has fixed and I bet you will soon reach the cost to have it fixed properly .
 
Preparing for the backlash on his but this sounds like the biggest case of false economy I have heard for a long while.
Main dealers are main dealer for a reason they spend thousands every year in diagnostic equipment and training of the personal to use it .
Yes there is a high labour cost but as this case clearly shows you get what you pay for.
I have dealt with some of these company's before and all promise " don't worry we keep the original file so we can put it back to standard if need be " been there !! sounds great until you ask them to come back and reinstate it to original then the excuses start oh we lost it or oh we have changed laptop long and short of it they either cannot or will not be back any where near it.
Is there a cost to fixing these systems ? yes of course can it be expensive yes of course .
At the end of the day the systems are a Legal requirement in this country like it or not.
Adblue is an added cost ,granted ,but is it that much really in the grand scheme of things.
Always hear people on hear slagging off main dealers who are " ripping everyone off" at the end of the day they have invested in their business to provide expert services for us which meet the required standards and legislation.
Imagine the outrage if supermarkets started circumventing the system and importing cheap beef from abroad that did not meet any legal requirements or standards but it was deemed to be a better bet because it was a fraction of buying it from professional experienced , registered and accredited producers because " UK farmers are just ripping everyone off" .

My advise , and only my opinion, it is your money at the end of the day .

Get it fixed "professionally" by a professional dealer who know what they are doing and will warrant their work properly.
Start counting up your own time you have spent on this already at £30 an hour plus the cost of the ahem "map" which has clearly only created more Problems than it has fixed and I bet you will soon reach the cost to have it fixed properly .

How many of these "professional" dealers actually know what thier at? Im all for using dealer backup at premium prices but id be expecting premium service in return. I have first hand experience and have went through several dealers lately because they are charging premium prices and simply have not got a flucking clue what they are doing. Happy to fill the yard with apprentices and fitters to spend plenty of time on simple jobs. Not enough good mechanics to diagnose hard to find issues. Might have invested heavily in software and equipment but noone knows how to use it properly. Too quick to throw new parts at a problem instead of trying to actually find out whats wrong by working logically through it from cheap fixes to the expensive stuff. Its beyond a joke at times what I have seen go on. By the way the above egr delete is a simple process to any half decent mapping guy. I get what your saying though with the messing thats happened there hed been safer fix it. Problem I find with adblue systems is once the start to give trouble they dont want to stop so delete is the best option but until it gives bother I wouldn't touch it
 

Mursal

Member
Will they give good mechanics time to diagnose hard to find issues, I sometimes wonder?
It all seems to be fire brigade work, "is it finished yet, is it finished yet"
 
Last edited:

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.7%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 64 34.6%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.2%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 6 3.2%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,287
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top