New information about local nature recovery and landscape recovery

[Cab-over Pete]

Is anyone else thinking what I’m thinking?…….


Christ, I’m glad I’m not Janet Hughes!!!

 

[Samcowman]

Hi Janet. Do you have a timescale for details on the young farmers scheme I think I remember you mentioning last year?

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

Is anyone else thinking what I’m thinking?…….


Christ, I’m glad I’m not Janet Hughes!!!

Each to their own Pete, I'm a very happy camper!

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I should think you need to be very resilient!!

 

[yellow belly]

Is anyone else thinking what I’m thinking?…….


Christ, I’m glad I’m not Janet Hughes!!!

as i see it she is having a good go at doing a good job

we all know she can never please every one

 

[topground]

Is anyone else thinking what I’m thinking?…….


Christ, I’m glad I’m not Janet Hughes!!!

I suspect Janet Hughes is glad she isn’t @Cab-over Pete who might not have a guaranteed income regardless of performance outcomes, a final salary pension and a nice warm office while working from home.

 

[Chris F]

Is anyone else thinking what I’m thinking?…….


Christ, I’m glad I’m not Janet Hughes!!!

Well in the opening statement of the OFC they said that its critical for those who make decisions to talk to those who are doing. Janet is doing this and listening to our complaints as well.

I have been assured by the Defra team they are learning from this exercise though. So please just keep being constructive and honest. Farmer feedback is important.

But I'd said it before, I take my hat off to her!

 

[ollie989898]

I hope all these schemes stipulate that any land entered should be kept in a conditions that makes its reinstatement to full agricultural production possible should the need ever arise.

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

If your agreement has already started (including those starting this month), then you get the increased rates ie the middle column.

The final column, for agreements starting from Jan 2023 onwards, also includes a small number of reduced prices - these will only apply to those coming into agreements on or after 1 January 2023.

(we'll update the tables to make that clearer - thanks for flagging this and sorry for confusing!)

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I suspect Janet Hughes is glad she isn’t @Cab-over Pete who might not have a guaranteed income regardless of performance outcomes, a final salary pension and a nice warm office while working from home.

I don’t even want to be me some days!

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I know all the farmers will be very concerned for the future of my business, along with @Mounty too, so with that in mind, I’ve got to ask……

Will it still need lime?

By that I mean those farmers that choose to farm as they want are going to have to prove they are looking after their soil.
That is a huge minefield, what with the water regulations, NVZs, manure management etc etc etc.
For years I’ve carried out soil sampling for some farmers who require the results and recommendations for assurance purposes, but some don’t act on the results found and put right deficiencies found in their soils. Basically, I’ve wasted my time.
I’m worried that if farming the land isn’t profitable and farmers are leant on to rewild then good, productive land will be lost to trees and scrub.
Will there be a place within the schemes for go ahead farmers that actually want to farm?
I’m afraid to say that many I speak to think not and are making decisions whether to not bother with the schemes or not bother farming. They don’t think there is a future in both together.

 

[Grass And Grain]

If your agreement has already started (including those starting this month), then you get the increased rates ie the middle column.

The final column, for agreements starting from Jan 2023 onwards, also includes a small number of reduced prices - these will only apply to those coming into agreements on or after 1 January 2023.

(we'll update the tables to make that clearer - thanks for flagging this and sorry for confusing!)

Thanks Janet. It was probably me being a bit thick! Thanks for explaining.

...and good to see DEFRA sticking to their word (if you commit to enter into a CS agreement you won't be unfairly disadvantaged)...

Farming for the next generation

Secretary of State Michael Gove sets out his vision on the future of our farming industry at the Oxford Farming Conference 2018

www.gov.uk

 

[delilah]

We're working hard to ensure that's not the case, but I do see where you're coming from and realise that the proof of the pudding will be in the eating - that's entirely fair enough

It took me 5 seconds flat to come up with that most basic of reasons why it wont work trying to get farmers to marry the 3 different strands of ELMS together. Give it a few hours thought and I and many on here could write an essay on all the reasons why it is pie in the sky.

Please get in touch if you're reading this and would like to get involved in helping shape this to make it work for farmers - the more farmers eyes we have on this, the better we can make it work for you.

This is the thing though. How can I help to shape something that I think needs binning ?

There is a far bigger issue at play here: What does 'co-design' mean ?
Because it seems to me that Defra see it meaning fine tuning what they have come up with, whereas what it should actually mean is listening to what folks are saying and acting accordingly, however far removed that takes ELMS from what you currently have it looking like.

 

[Goweresque]

I can see the LR tier of ELMS will be for the large landowners only, ie ones who have at least 500ha under their own control. I can't see consortiums of landowners working together, not in the way that Defra will demand, ie legal contracts signed by everyone, and everyone dependent on all the others doing what they are supposed to in order to get paid. The history of farming co-operation in the UK suggests the last thing a farmer wants is to be dependent on the good nature of his neighbours. Apart from which, in some parts of the UK the animosity among neighbours runs back generations, there's no hope of them co-operating, or if they did the whole thing would collapse in a steaming pile of rancour, bitterness, recrimination and revenge served decades old.

So as far as I see it one third of the ELMS money will be ring fenced entirely for large landowners and land owning institutions, who can paddle their own canoes in their own private river of money, unpolluted by the small fry. They'll be able to do SFI and LNR as well of course, so they'll be swimming in ELMS cash. The small farmer won't be able to get any LR money, SFI will prove too little ££ for too much hassle and LNR will only be any use if they want to give up farming and become a park keeper.

 

[Bill the Bass]

We're not updating capital rates within existing schemes right now, no

Thanks for the answer @Janet Hughes Defra but that’s crazy given the well documented inflation we are seeing at farm level. I think your colleagues have their heads in the sand on this one.

To put it in perspective, we have just paid £10k for fencing to get c£4.5k back in grant to fence off an area which will now receive less funding per ha thanks to your review.

This is an example of why so few of us trust Agri-environment schemes. Shafted at every turn.

 

[Vader]

Extract from one
"restoring England’s streams and rivers: improving water quality, biodiversity and adapting to climate change – these projects could restore water bodies, rivers, and floodplains to a more natural state, reduce nutrient pollution, benefit aquatic species, and improve flood mitigation and resilience to climate change"

Yet you're allowing water Co's to discharge sewage into water courses??? How much profit do these water Co's make?? And yet we are tasked with making things better for peanuts.
Everything I have read re all these various overly complicated schemes just points at more paperwork for very little return. I do wonder if that is the aim, offer peanuts, we all say no thanks and then you turn round and say we've offered, job done.

Rivers have been left to a natural state instead of being maintained. That's why so much flooding...
Really scares me how clueless the government and its various body's are now.
Princess nut nuts cult of rewinding everywhere has totally overtaken everything....

 

[Huno]

Morning all and happy new year.

Further to the information we published about the Sustainable Farming Incentive in December (see https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-incentive-how-the-scheme-will-work-in-2022), today we're publishing information about the 2 other new schemes: local nature recovery and landscape recovery.

These 3 schemes together will give farmers a range of ways to get paid to produce public goods alongside agricultural produce on their land.

We'll also very shortly be publishing the results of our review of payment rates for Countryside Stewardship.

I'll share links to the info here as soon as they're live, and I'll be online here and over on Twitter (where I am @janethughes) to answer your questions. I look forward to your questions and discussion, as ever

Update:

Here is a document that sets out a bit more about the environmental and climate outcomes we're seeking to achieve, alongside food production: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/environmental-land-management-schemes-outcomes

Here is a document about how the new local nature recovery scheme will work: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-more-information-on-how-the-scheme-will-work

Here is a document about the first round of landscape recovery projects: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-more-information-on-how-the-scheme-will-work

Here is a list of payment rates for Countryside Stewardship agreements, following a review last year https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...hip-revenue-payment-rates-from-1-january-2022 - the increased rates will apply to all agreement holders, regardless of when their agreement started. There is a small number of decreases - these will only apply to new agreement holders, from January 2023.

Update: here's a transcript of the speech made by the Secretary of State at Oxford Farming Conference this morning: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...rates-for-revenue-options-from-1-january-2022

Sadly Janet it is looking like i am going to buy a deep plough and grow anything that the Natural England quango have no influence over in 2024/25. 30% pay rise for CS!!! Do the maths? Your team have had no influence on NE... they are the Enviroment Act and they are going to undo alot of good work and energy!! Very sad

 

[J 1177]

I can see the LR tier of ELMS will be for the large landowners only, ie ones who have at least 500ha under their own control. I can't see consortiums of landowners working together, not in the way that Defra will demand, ie legal contracts signed by everyone, and everyone dependent on all the others doing what they are supposed to in order to get paid. The history of farming co-operation in the UK suggests the last thing a farmer wants is to be dependent on the good nature of his neighbours. Apart from which, in some parts of the UK the animosity among neighbours runs back generations, there's no hope of them co-operating, or if they did the whole thing would collapse in a steaming pile of rancour, bitterness, recrimination and revenge served decades old.

So as far as I see it one third of the ELMS money will be ring fenced entirely for large landowners and land owning institutions, who can paddle their own canoes in their own private river of money, unpolluted by the small fry. They'll be able to do SFI and LNR as well of course, so they'll be swimming in ELMS cash. The small farmer won't be able to get any LR money, SFI will prove too little ££ for too much hassle and LNR will only be any use if they want to give up farming and become a park keeper.

Summed up perfectly. I fear it may lead to a lot of fbt's not being renewed on large estates.

 

[Huno]

These schemes are based around the concept of natural capital, you'd hope they'd actually taken the time to learn what it means....

Anyone seen the natural capital cash yet?? I bloody havent!!! Smoke and mirrors

 

[Huno]

The difference between SFI and LNR is:

* SFI is for actions that can be taken anywhere, by any farmer, and are generally focused on making farming more environmentally sustainable eg looking after soil, smarter use of fertilisers, integrated pest management
* Local Nature Recovery is for actions that are more locally targeted, benefit from people working together (eg joined up habitats, water quality improvement or flood management interventions in a local area), and involve sparing more land for nature, water / carbon sequestration - eg on less productive areas of your farm

For farmers looking at the schemes, we're working to make it as straightforward as possible: you'll just see a single service that shows you what options are available to you in your particular area (eg if you're on a coast you'll see all the SFI standards, plus a range of Local Nature Recovery options including coastal habitat restoration options that won't be available in inland areas). You'll be able to construct a single agreement covering whatever combination of SFI and LNR you want to do.

You are killing your best advocates in the interim!!! Sort it out please quickly.... grrrrr