New information about local nature recovery and landscape recovery

[Huno]

Welcome back Janet... whilst the average intelligent tenant farmer has given up on SFI etc.. you absence of any new and interesting news from DEFRA in the last month is noted... Most farmers with brains are now planning Winter 2023 cropping plans and SFI currently just doesnt feature...

 

[Huno]

Drip feeding us SFI propsals like lambs on the bottle is just not working

 

[Huno]

Interestingly you fellow co workers at the Dept of Energy aka BEIS are leaving us in the dark too on the road to Land Management transition in England... Booooo...

 

[steveR]

'low input grassland' is a description of a land use type rather than an instruction as to what to do on the land - there will be standards across all types of arable and grassland - we shared some information here about what is coming in future years, and we'll share more details shortly (I recognise that you can't tell a lot from the names of standards here and that we need to say more about what they're about / what they involve)

Yet again, the Devil will be in the Detail...

And yet again, the philosophy of KISS will not be followed I suspect...

 

[steveR]

Thanks. I hadn't noticed that.

The funny thing is, I have genuinely seen more lapwings here in the last 5 years than ever before. I had to look it up the first time as I didn't know what they were.

Coincidentally, I believe this is an area where the population of badgers has reduced significantly in recent times.....

How anyone can think Badgers populations on the increase can be anything other than detrimental to ground nesting bird populations is quite simply.... xxxxxx


Fill in the appropriate term! I know what I would use, but not here in polite company!

 

[ajcc]

Red deer are no more popular than playing host to 20 uninvited itinerant yearling bullocks feasting on your grass corn or roots they not fussy and trampling and running down the Devon banks!
Pssst wildlife will never flourish in the presence of urban holiday makers and their free running pet dog but freeing up unrestricted public access is a primary contradictory requirement.

 

[delilah]

'low input grassland' is a description of a land use type rather than an instruction as to what to do on the land - there will be standards across all types of arable and grassland - we shared some information here about what is coming in future years, and we'll share more details shortly (I recognise that you can't tell a lot from the names of standards here and that we need to say more about what they're about / what they involve)

OK, so, i've read that 3 times now, and I know i'm just in from the pub, but it makes no sense. I will give it another go in the morning .

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Thanks. I hadn't noticed that.

The funny thing is, I have genuinely seen more lapwings here in the last 5 years than ever before. I had to look it up the first time as I didn't know what they were.

Coincidentally, I believe this is an area where the population of badgers has reduced significantly in recent times.....

Read it carefully now. The problem is summer up right here:

Where are the land owners / managers actually represented in that document? Without them on board it is undeliverable. It's ignorant of some of the key causes of declines too.

These are the documents that will define what LNR money is spent on!

 

[steveR]

OK, so, i've read that 3 times now, and I know i'm just in from the pub, but it makes no sense. I will give it another go in the morning .

Maybe have a beer or 3 for breakfast to help....

 

[steveR]

Read it carefully now. The problem is summer up right here:

View attachment 1023364

Where are the land owners / managers actually represented in that document? Without them on board it is undeliverable. It's ignorant of some of the key causes of declines too.

These are the documents that will define what LNR money is spent on!

FFS.... that is just bloody appalling!!

So zero real and practical land management experience there ....! Not even a Land Agent or two in that illustrious array that constitutes the Group. To be honest, this has really, really annoyed me so much, I am speechless!

It really does encompass all of our worst suspicions on the direction that ELMS is going to be taken.

@Janet Hughes Defra does this project have the support of DEFRA? Can you comment on the complete lack of landowner/farmer/Agent input on the Drafting Group?

 

[texelburger]

Read it carefully now. The problem is summer up right here:

View attachment 1023364

Where are the land owners / managers actually represented in that document? Without them on board it is undeliverable. It's ignorant of some of the key causes of declines too.

These are the documents that will define what LNR money is spent on!

Sadly these are the groups that will,ultimately, reap the rewards of ELMS.They're creating policy for their benefit.I feel sorry for small family working farms that I feel may be by-passed

 

[theboytheboy]

FFS.... that is just bloody appalling!!

So zero real and practical land management experience there I....! Not even a Land Agent or two in that illustrious array that constitutes the Group. To be honest, this has really, really annoyed me so much, I am speechless!

It really does encompass all of our worst suspicions on the direction that ELMS is going to be taken.

@Janet Hughes Defra does this project have the support of DEFRA? Can you comment on the complete lack of landowner/farmer/Agent input on the Drafting Group?

If the group was entirely made up of farmers you can guarantee the national trust, rspb, monibot etc would be making some serious noise about it!

No doubt the people involved are being well paid for their time. I wonder what the average hourly rate is?

How about you offer some of the actual farmers on here the opportunity earn the same hourly rate and sit on these groups?

 

[delilah]

'low input grassland' is a description of a land use type rather than an instruction as to what to do on the land - there will be standards across all types of arable and grassland - we shared some information here about what is coming in future years, and we'll share more details shortly (I recognise that you can't tell a lot from the names of standards here and that we need to say more about what they're about / what they involve)

Sorry, still not sure what you are saying there.
PP needs a £/Ha payment way in excess of that offered for any other land use, for the myriad of reasons outlined on here ad nauseum.
It doesn't need to have reeds or rushes to qualify.
It doesn't need to have a corner flooded to qualify.
It doesn't need 17 exotic species stitched into it to qualify.
It doesn't need cutting after a certain date, or grazing to a certain height, to qualify.
It doesn't need a management plan/ diary keeping to qualify.
All it needs, is to remain as PP.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Sorry, still not sure what you are saying there.
PP needs a £/Ha payment way in excess of that offered for any other land use, for the myriad of reasons outlined on here ad nauseum.
It doesn't need to have reeds or rushes to qualify.
It doesn't need to have a corner flooded to qualify.
It doesn't need 17 exotic species stitched into it to qualify.
It doesn't need cutting after a certain date, or grazing to a certain height, to qualify.
It doesn't need a management plan/ diary keeping to qualify.
All it needs, is to remain as PP.

We have numerous calls for livestock numbers to fall and people to cut meat and dairy consumption, reports pointing out that permanent pasture holds more carbon and is more ecologically diverse than arable land and that draft LNR plan calling for conversion of arable land back to pasture and for rewilding all at the same time.

Fundamental baseline evidence is being ignored where it doesn't fit people's narratives.

No wonder farmer's aren't listening, it's utterly contradictory.

And the one group not being properly consulted and involved is farmers

I prophecy an utter failure to deliver the 25 year environment plan.

 

[PostHarvest]

I am sure that everyone will agree that Exmoor is a unique and special place. But can I ask why more than half of the advisory panel that is / has developed a farming strategy for the whole country represent that area? Surely there ought to be a mix of interests and skills from the whole country?

 

[BrianV]

We have numerous calls for livestock numbers to fall and people to cut meat and dairy consumption, reports pointing out that permanent pasture holds more carbon and is more ecologically diverse than arable land and that draft LNR plan calling for conversion of arable land back to pasture and for rewilding all at the same time.

Fundamental baseline evidence is being ignored where it doesn't fit people's narratives.

No wonder farmer's aren't listening, it's utterly contradictory.

And the one group not being properly consulted and involved is farmers

I prophecy an utter failure to deliver the 25 year environment plan.

Kind of reminds you of their new exciting 25 year TB plan, (we have now already had TB in cattle for over 50 years) make it long enough & half of us will have passed on & the rest will have given up listening

 

[onesiedale]

We have numerous calls for livestock numbers to fall and people to cut meat and dairy consumption, reports pointing out that permanent pasture holds more carbon and is more ecologically diverse than arable land and that draft LNR plan calling for conversion of arable land back to pasture and for rewilding all at the same time.

Fundamental baseline evidence is being ignored where it doesn't fit people's narratives.

No wonder farmer's aren't listening, it's utterly contradictory.

And the one group not being properly consulted and involved is farmers

I prophecy an utter failure to deliver the 25 year environment plan.

@Janet Hughes Defra
this ^^^^^^^^^

 

[onesiedale]

Sorry, still not sure what you are saying there.
PP needs a £/Ha payment way in excess of that offered for any other land use, for the myriad of reasons outlined on here ad nauseum.
It doesn't need to have reeds or rushes to qualify.
It doesn't need to have a corner flooded to qualify.
It doesn't need 17 exotic species stitched into it to qualify.
It doesn't need cutting after a certain date, or grazing to a certain height, to qualify.
It doesn't need a management plan/ diary keeping to qualify.
All it needs, is to remain as PP.

@Janet Hughes Defra
....and this ^^^^^

 

[Weasel]

She can shove her nature recovery.
I'll use my land for what I want, without getting any subs.

 

[StormInATeaCup]

That's not right, no - we will be introducing standards for low input grassland in the sustainable farming incentive in due course and have meanwhile increased the prices in CS for the almost all of the grassland options.

The prices on most of the grassland options went up, in some cases significantly - the full list is here (specifically the 'GS' set of options): https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...rates-for-revenue-options-from-1-january-2022

For example the payment for permanent grassland with very low inputs went up from £95 to £132 per hectare (outside SDAs) and from £16 to £71 per hectare (in SDA). Creation of species-rich grassland went up from £267 to £374 per hectare. Others went up by a smaller proportion.

Here is the table of GS options, for ease of reference, showing the price in 2021, the price in 2022 for existing agreements (where no reductions have been applied to any payment rates) and the rate for agreements starting on or after 1 Jan 2023 (where a small number of reductions have been applied to reflect an updated assessment of income foregone plus costs) - you can see the full list via the link above).

As you can see, all the GS payment rates increased apart from two, the lenient grazing supplement (GS17) and the haymaking supplement (GS15).

GS10	Management of wet grassland for wintering waders and wildfowl	157	197	197
GS11	Creation of wet grassland for breeding waders	406	480	480
GS12	Creation of wet grassland for wintering waders and wildfowl	310	403	403
GS13	Management of grassland for target features	90	131	131
GS14	Creation of grassland for target features	253	372	372
GS15	Haymaking supplement	85	85	37
GS16	Rush infestation control supplement	73	77	77
GS17	Lenient Grazing Supplement	44	44	23
GS2	Permanent grassland with very low inputs (outside SDAs)	95	132	132
GS3	Ryegrass seed-set as winter food for birds	331	426	426
GS4	Legume and herb-rich swards	309	358	358
GS5	Permanent grassland with very low inputs in SDA	16	71	71
GS6	Management of species-rich grassland	182	182	182
GS7	Restoration towards species-rich grassland	145	205	205
GS8	Creation of species-rich grassland	267	374	374
GS9	Management of wet grassland for breeding waders	264	323	323

If DEFRA wanted to be honest about the CSS payment rate ‘rises’, they would provide an inflation adjusted table.

@janethughes Does DEFRA have this and if so please can you post it?

I think it would demonstrate that the payment ‘rises’ are much less generous than we are being told.