New livestock EID measures announced by Michael Gove

[Henarar]

It will cost more than £25 / yr @Henarar to "pop to" the vet to get a syringe - that's if they will prescribe without actually seeing the animal.

what that got to do with EID ?
so you think if the animal has a chip in its ear [that's if its still in there] the vet will be more likely to prescribe, oh well each to their own

 

[milkloss]

@The Beef , I can understand why you like eid and I would like to ba able to use it too but sadly not justifiable for me and our system. My main concerns is the legislation and rules behind it that would cause it to be a problem.

One such issue you flagged up was a misread visual tag. Obviously that was dealt with in satisfactory manner, maybe a few short intakes of breath, but all sorted in the end. What would happen if someone was using a wand in a pen of cattle and blipped the animal next door or maybe blipped a loose tag in the console of the truck as they got in? Normally this would be resolved in much the same way that you did with yours except with eid there is likely to be a blind faith in the technology and the requirement of a 100% record for the eu and export markets (ignoring Brexit for a minute).

No tech is 100% and that is the problem: human error acceptable but training will be required to help negate the possible false readings and the powers that be will have to allow an acceptable error with eid and the cascade of errors caused by it in the database.....so maybe 99.9% success rate? This is imperative imo to allow the system to work.

What’s your opinion?

How many have nipped a bullock home that shouldn’t have been on the lorry to mart? How many times should that have not technically happened due to disease risk/rules? If the instant eid movement database has done its stuff what are you supposed to do?

 

[JD-Kid]

had a person call in yesterday with about 280 ewes got talking eid as much as it would streamline things out of price range
but just useing Xl on a ipad could do alot ot of stuff recoarding etc and if the EID was linked to a VID tag it could be done without a read

 

[Hilly]

What % of sucklers are EID tagged now. ?

 

[milkloss]

Doing a bit of browsing over tea and came across this. The interesting points are that they do an iOS (apple) app which isn’t common and that the tag has both the chip serial number and animal herd number printed on the tag visually. So that’s knocked one, actually two, of my reservations out.

Oh, yes, the link:
https://www.cattlemax.com/cattle-tags-eid-readers

 

[Hampton]

Complete and utter waste of time and just another cost for farmers with no return..

Wouldn't be so bad but for every 50 lambs you send to slaughter with EID tags you always get one or two tags they cannot read and thus you just get the flock no...

What the hell will happen when you send 50 cattle and they cant EID read some of the tags??

Don't forget that the farmer is responsible to ensure that the records held by the likes of ARAMS etc is correct.....

I assume that this will mean that BCMS/ paper passports and ARAMS will be scrapped.

Eid tags and no passports will make it a lot harder to do the entry forms for things like named sire passports.

And don't forget many farmers cannot use computers/ and some don't have internet connections that are any good ( ie very slow ) so if you need to check sire details/ number of movements etc etc it could be all but impossible.

.........

No surprise the NFU support this @An Gof ...................................

I think you've missed the biggest issue with Cattle EID.
When you scan a beast you have to sync it with its correct tag number (unlike sheep, the number that comes up on the scanner is NOT the tag number). How on earth are the markets/abattoirs going to do that with every beast that comes on site?

 

[Hilly]

Ive seen some revolutionary farm inventions over the years all taken up by farmers with no laws, no sub, roundbalers, wrappers, quads 4wd tractors aircon etc etc etc massive success storys . EID is not cutting the mustard, needing encouraged through grants, subs, laws etc, means the majority are not convinced to me. Improvements need to be made if it is improved to a point it will come on its own without laws subs grants etc, another thing on the list that makes me feel uk ag is so feked up its unreal.

 

[Daniel Larn]

Ive seen some revolutionary farm inventions over the years all taken up by farmers with no laws, no sub, roundbalers, wrappers, quads 4wd tractors aircon etc etc etc massive success storys . EID is not cutting the mustard, needing encouraged through grants, subs, laws etc, means the majority are not convinced to me. Improvements need to be made if it is improved to a point it will come on its own without laws subs grants etc, another thing on the list that makes me feel uk ag is so feked up its unreal.

I think those higher up agree with you as well, they want to push EID but they also know that it has to support a useful system and not just be a token contribution to food integrity to placate the consumers.

That's the real reason it hasn't already been pushed. The question about grants or subsidy to fund the transition is also a stick in the mud. The industry can't decide who will pay for it.

 

[Hilly]

I think those higher up agree with you as well, they want to push EID but they also know that it has to support a useful system and not just be a token contribution to food integrity to placate the consumers.

That's the real reason it hasn't already been pushed. The question about grants or subsidy to fund the transition is also a stick in the mud. The industry can't decide who will pay for it.

Aye well if the majority could see a huge benefit to bottom line like they did with say a bale wrapper in the early eighties for want of an example it would pay for its self, folk dont jump on band wagons with no money on them, so if them higher up the chain want EID tags they need to put their hand in their pockets ! pay a tenner more for a eid tagged beast and nearly all will be eid tagged next year.

 

[JD-Kid]

Ive seen some revolutionary farm inventions over the years all taken up by farmers with no laws, no sub, roundbalers, wrappers, quads 4wd tractors aircon etc etc etc massive success storys . EID is not cutting the mustard, needing encouraged through grants, subs, laws etc, means the majority are not convinced to me. Improvements need to be made if it is improved to a point it will come on its own without laws subs grants etc, another thing on the list that makes me feel uk ag is so feked up its unreal.

we took up EID here with no subs carrots etc etc and now starting to see more things with it how to ID each animal and to make better gains in coming years will start to pay off
to befair for this farm it maybe a huge game changer in way forward

 

[Hilly]

we took up EID here with no subs carrots etc etc and now starting to see more things with it how to ID each animal and to make better gains in coming years will start to pay off
to befair for this farm it maybe a huge game changer in way forward

What did you say it cost you 20k ? how much have you turned that 20k into in 3 years with eid ?

 

[Hampton]

I think those higher up agree with you as well, they want to push EID but they also know that it has to support a useful system and not just be a token contribution to food integrity to placate the consumers.

That's the real reason it hasn't already been pushed. The question about grants or subsidy to fund the transition is also a stick in the mud. The industry can't decide who will pay for it.

As Ia have stated on this thread and many others.
I couple of years ago I was all for EID in cattle. I thought it would be a great management tool, particularly getting tag numbers of cows when they calve and you don't want to disturb them. However, it turned into an absolute joke. When you scan a sheep tag, the number on the scanner matches the animals tag number. For some reason this doesn't happen with cattle. With cattle you have to sync the tag with your program on your phone, and ensure that whenever you have the scanner you also have your phone app open so that the number scanned is translated by the app from the scanner into the animals number. The number on the scanner is goobledegook and will not be the animals own number, just a random code associated with the tag.
I have been told there is a reason for this nonsense, but I don't know what it is, and considering when you scan a sheep, the tag number of the animal comes up on the scanner I don't see why cattle can't do the same.

 

[Hilly]

As Ia have stated on this thread and many others.
I couple of years ago I was all for EID in cattle. I thought it would be a great management tool, particularly getting tag numbers of cows when they calve and you don't want to disturb them. However, it turned into an absolute joke. When you scan a sheep tag, the number on the scanner matches the animals tag number. For some reason this doesn't happen with cattle. With cattle you have to sync the tag with your program on your phone, and ensure that whenever you have the scanner you also have your phone app open so that the number scanned is translated by the app from the scanner into the animals number. The number on the scanner is goobledegook and will not be the animals own number, just a random code associated with the tag.
I have been told there is a reason for this nonsense, but I don't know what it is, and considering when you scan a sheep, the tag number of the animal comes up on the scanner I don't see why cattle can't do the same.

Same here tried and tested, had to mess about syncing tags with a tag bucket etc etc was like been a bloody teenager messing about with an electronic toy, got binned sharpish fortunatly utilise the stick reader for sheep but even that dosent come without its own problems just a faf about for nothing.

 

[Hampton]

Same here tried and tested, had to mess about syncing tags with a tag bucket etc etc was like been a bloody teenager messing about with an electronic toy, got binned sharpish fortunatly utilise the stick reader for sheep but even that dosent come without its own problems just a faf about for nothing.

Agree, I do the same.
I now use the App to record everything just not the EID bit.

 

[JD-Kid]

What did you say it cost you 20k ? how much have you turned that 20k into in 3 years with eid ?

hard to put a price on some things
split ewes this year based on scanning history so should see on going gains in off spring in coming years
have used it on hoggets last few year IDing slower growth rates and understanding animal health probs with worms etc
looking at breeds and growths of breeds there lambing % loses from scanning to weaning
yeilds of breeds etc
to same they may say that can be done with pen and paper yes for a smaller number yes it can for a few 1000 it needs to be a better system to get info to make better infomed plans
better use of higher speced rams

in a few more years will be able to have weaning weight ,hogget mateing weight , hogget scanning , 4 tooth adult weight , years scanning data , avg of adult scans , mateing mob ,sire ,dam , maybe growth ADG from weaning taging to hogget mateing , look at mateing weight year to year
i would say once more info on the ewes the flow on maybe quite high a better breeding flock with weight gains and lambing could be in the 10's of 1000's per year
if it could lift lambing and growths i would say some were between 25-40 000 a year

 

[JD-Kid]

should add that price was for a 5 way auto drafter XR5000 reader SR2 wand panel reader on auto drafter

the price would be lower if not useing the 5 way drafter a smaller head unit and just useing a simple wand to read tags

 

[gone up the hill]

Like I said it was pre EID, it was a mistake, by us, AND the abattoir.
Even with EID, and it is just a management tag presently, it is still possible to get the wrong passport out.
Do tell how you achieve your perfect record keeping. It must be good to be able record all those pesky batch numbers, and expiry dates, without issue. I did notice however that you didn't challenge our clear RPA inspection - mind you don't let facts get in the way of a good rant!




Gosh I think you just may have the answer - scan the EID before the cattle go!!!
That's brilliant why didn't someone else think of that!!




You could be as clever as you like and the best stockman ever, if down the line handing out bottles of AB is not allowed, then what you think will be immaterial! Surely it is better to see a bit further than your nose end and realise that we may just be able to show that with good systems good record keeping we are fit to keep the present. Personally for that reason alone I would willing to do what it takes. It will cost more than £25 / yr @Henarar to "pop to" the vet to get a syringe - that's if they will prescribe without actually seeing the animal.

With regard to your attitude to @Frank-the-Wool why don't you stand yourself and woo voters with your "reasoned" arguments and "forward thinking", not to mention "diplomacy". Just a word of advice don't stamp your feet and have a hissy fit on the platform it might lose a vote or two!

You need to take heed of your own advice.

Very poor management to only read tags/ draw cattle the minute they are getting loaded, we load cattle at 4,30/ 5am some times, no way am I getting up at 3 am to run cattle down a race to Eid read them in the cold/ wet in the middle of winter to draw off the ones I want to send.

Don't try and belittle me on what I do as its you that clearly have management issues and could learn a lot from the rest of us that have never sent the wrong animal/ passport....

And yep mistakes will happen to anyone but to justify your own poor management as a reason that everyone should change their systems is a bad job.