Be good to see another young ploughman in world style, give young Tim some competition just what we need
New ploughing tractor
- Thread starter gavts86rwm
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Never said anything about the legality of it. Gone off on a tangent there Wuddy and jumped in with both feet.
Whilst I personally consider it a conversion - after all whatever guise it left the Ford factory in, whether or not it had a front axle ont', it left as a 4000. However, in the rules a County 4000 Four is allowed in the Classic Class and several people use them, quite legally. I do however remember ploughing one into the lower placing with my little DB780 at one very very wet Banbury match where only a few of us were able to finish.
When I started, I used a Power Major, which as a 4000, is also far far too heavy for either making a job throughout the season in the classic class or for getting about. Ok maybe now or in August / September when things can be rock hard, but pointless overall, pointless also for the trailer plough he just bought. With two pointless answers maybe we ought to set a team up and head for TV. Lookout Messers Armstrong and Osman! Could be lots of pointless answers out there on British Ploughing! Regardless of all this banter - it's the individuals personal preference as to what they plough with and in which class!
Back to this quiz........what's your next move Gav or did you catch some dreadful bug or other at that there judging seminar
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Fergie Ploughman
Member
- Location
- Cheshire, UK
What's going on then Gav....you mentioned world style ??
Talking of the judging seminar.....I did the same one at Foston. Its was "ok", the ground wasn't great, there were 2 x vintage hyd, 2 x world, 1 trailer, 1 classic and 2 euro style, with varying skills. I found it very useful, but there was some disagreement on finishes which I couldn't get in my head. The rest of the scoring was much of a muchness, within a couple of points. Re finish, to me clean and bent is not as good as straight and dirty, surely straightness is key as its a fundamental ploughing skill. Some ploughs clean the bottom out better ie world KV compared to a Robin with YL's. My other bug bear on the scoring was the marking of my favourite "general appearance" (otherwise known as "the way to make sure the right person wins if the scores are a bit close!). I marked fairly middle of the road, but the seminar leaders were really ramping those points up or down! One of my big take aways was the full use of the 20 marks ie if something is not good drop the points off dramatically and vise versa, if its a good piece of work ramp the points on. At the end of the day I had the top 3 the same, but my 1st and second differed!...and why not, because its all relatively subjective and one judge will prefer something different to another.
I should have maybe started a thread on this rather than hijack Gav's...
Talking of the judging seminar.....I did the same one at Foston. Its was "ok", the ground wasn't great, there were 2 x vintage hyd, 2 x world, 1 trailer, 1 classic and 2 euro style, with varying skills. I found it very useful, but there was some disagreement on finishes which I couldn't get in my head. The rest of the scoring was much of a muchness, within a couple of points. Re finish, to me clean and bent is not as good as straight and dirty, surely straightness is key as its a fundamental ploughing skill. Some ploughs clean the bottom out better ie world KV compared to a Robin with YL's. My other bug bear on the scoring was the marking of my favourite "general appearance" (otherwise known as "the way to make sure the right person wins if the scores are a bit close!). I marked fairly middle of the road, but the seminar leaders were really ramping those points up or down! One of my big take aways was the full use of the 20 marks ie if something is not good drop the points off dramatically and vise versa, if its a good piece of work ramp the points on. At the end of the day I had the top 3 the same, but my 1st and second differed!...and why not, because its all relatively subjective and one judge will prefer something different to another.
I should have maybe started a thread on this rather than hijack Gav's...
A lot of questionable ethics involved Charlie. Whatever happened to a good old simple 'give it what it's worth'
Bumping up or down to my mind simply adds credence to the pick who you want to win school of thought.
After all these seminars and what they teach, I was accused of doing a poor finish by a Hampshire judge. In my own mind I was rather pleased with it - reasonably shallow, perfectly parallel, perfectly straight, shallow wheeling and 4 perfectly even furrows coming uniformly down on each side to a clean polished furrow bottom. Forgive my further lack of knowledge but what else does a good finish require? ........
in Hampshire however, apparently it is a cardinal sin for the last furrow to be more than halfway up the preceding one, so whatever else were they taught?Two very very pertinent points regarding the score sheet.
First of all the 'you've done the sheet, now pick your winner' is a double whammy. If'n you can only just pull them up to level' the category you used to do this (general appearance) casts the deciding vote in the countback
Secondly hours and hours of mind numbing thought must have been put in to bringing in straightness and the way it was imposed on the score sheet. In their infinite wisdom there is one aspect. The European and the World both, surprisingly enough, concur and have 4 aspects for straightness - opening, crown, middle work and finish.
Surely it's best for ploughing that counts for most, not what's best for the powers that be. Just one other thought on picking winners - it still never helped English ploughing on the world stage.
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Fergie Ploughman
Member
- Location
- Cheshire, UK
Not having a strong earth furrow is something I'm good at....I'm always too frickin' deep leaving not enough for that last one!!
Timo@hattonfarms
Member
- Location
- Warwickshire
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One of the hardest things to learn. It's a fine line between being too deep and not being deep enough to cut it all and actually make a furrow. Only option left is to bring some out from deeper for the sole furrow
Timo@hattonfarms
Member
- Location
- Warwickshire
It was definitely a fluke there usually shiteTicks most of the right boxes
Not on bad if that's only the tenth you did!
Don't do yourself down you ploughed very well that day, in difficult conditions. You just need to do more competitions your good enough to compete against World Style men in Midlands area
wuddy
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders
I was just doing a bit of fishing Dave. Doesn't affect me certainly can't plough vintage mounted with it.
I was pulled up by a judge, ex world style ploughman, because my sole furrow was not 75% the height of the preceding one. Bearing in mind that the sole furrow is , by and large, produced from the bottom of the previous furrow on your neighbour's side,it is impossible to obtain sufficient soil to represent more than about 50% of front furrow soil without ploughing deeper with the rear furrow than the front on the final run. Of course there are many tricks of the trade to help increase this amount of sole furrow , one being to to leave a small amount of front furrow to be buried by the sole furrow. This "stolen" buried soil inevitably contains some trash but because judges are basically lazy they don`t often investigate this.
Maybe the "champs " can throw some light but I have concluded that, without deceiving somebody, you can`t get a quart out of a pint pot..
Push your back board out for the last run. Twofold advantage - pushes the sole furrow up the second to last making it higher - makes the second to last look in proportion with the rest of the work and not stand out as a biggun!
Dont overdo it or it will steer the plough all over. Lifting the front leg also helps but dont overdo it.
Good tips. I do lift the front leg but only 3/4". I have not pushed the back board out but surely this creates a wider finish ? I always thought that the object was to create a finish that was easier to fill in. Perhaps my farming brain had taken over from my match ploughing one. The fact remains that you cannot conjure up something from nothing, just deceive the eye.
Lots of different takes on this one Bob...... beauty in the eye of the beholder, depends who is judging, but....
...generally if it looks right it is right. Can't deceive on all the basics, straightness, uniformity, clean cut & polished.Problem arises when the judge can't or does not really want to see what he's looking at - for instance 15 for a finish over a full furr out of square and that's an alleged 'top' judge at the National, self and same guy now a 'top' judge at seminars.
Is this not another World ploughing requirement taking over?The late John Gwilliam was most insistent that ( Tin hat on, and flack jacket) (1) there should be a small step on the show furrow side of a finish.(10" work) and (2), that the show furrow and moulder should match. Until a few years ago, this held good even in World style.
But, the funny thing is, that things which are not right, are judged to be so if they look right! I presume the same people would pay John Deere prices for a Zetor, if it was painted green and yellow!
I have also seen a polished finish marked down because it was considered to be panned, and would retain water!
But, the funny thing is, that things which are not right, are judged to be so if they look right! I presume the same people would pay John Deere prices for a Zetor, if it was painted green and yellow!
I have also seen a polished finish marked down because it was considered to be panned, and would retain water!
Fergie Ploughman
Member
- Location
- Cheshire, UK
...which ends up in a big front furrow. Made the mistake many times over. If the single furrows to narrow it looks different to the preceeding turned furrows and if its too wide it ends up big. I think the finish is the most difficult part of the whole job and of course its worth a sh*t load of points when you count in all the bits it can be part of scoring...
Fergie Ploughman
Member
- Location
- Cheshire, UK
Might have a play at that - you mean leave the front wide and slice some off to be picked up by the rear?
Fergie Ploughman
Member
- Location
- Cheshire, UK
Mmmm....not one for moving my boards in and out, and I'm vintage....flatly refuse to become a leg lifter!
Exactly.